New blank garden.... need URGENT advice on fruit and veggie plantation.

[PassionateButInexperience]

Hi All

Sorry for the long mail... but please read and you will know.. cost is not issues(I have been saving of this), I want to get it right...

I have been stumbling across the net and came across this forum.

I am in URGENT need for some expert advice.

Just bought a newly build property and the back garden is a blank canvas, actually i bought the garden and house came with it

Very passionate to grow fruit trees and veggies but don't want to start in wrong direction. Please help as I believe I am loosing time..

I have 15 ' west facing wooden fence. can I plant 1. and 2. mentioned below against it.

1. I plan to put a 2-3 Duo Cordon Pear tree - Is this good time to plant if I get a container one (1-2 years old) ??

2. Plan to put a 2 Cordon Plum tree - Is this good time to plant if I get a container one (1-2 years old) ??


3. 1 Peach Tree (Avalon Variety, very hardy) on a north-west corner of the garden in a well drained but get partial sun. Will this work ??

4. A family apple tree (3 varieties in one) - Just telling this for Inormation, not planned yet but already so proud of it .. unless someone can share any disadvantage..

5. Dark and white grape trees (outside and not indoor, against a wooden fence)
- Please recommend how many can I plant in a distance 20 feet ?
- Is March good time to plant.
- Please recommend good dessert varieties (both black and white, more than one of each that will give me variety of fruits, pollinate each other and crop well in south facing fence of Sussex weather)

- MOST Important : I am planning to make a 2.5' x 20' bed against the south facing fence and plant above mentioned 4 grapes wines and climb them on the fence. My concern is I also wants to grow veggies (tomato, aubergine etc..) in the bed.
Will this idea work ? Will the veggies act as weed for the wine plant ? its a very rich soil but I can get the whole 2.5' x 20' bed with the compost/manure you recommend.


Please advise ASAP you can, would be very very grateful

Thanks & Regards
Anil C.

[polc1410]

people will need to know which country you are in?

[Jeanied]

Anil let us know your location!

[WendyC]

Or even county?

What is the overall size of the garden? Which direction does it face? How open is the site? Are you surrounded by fields or houses? What is the soil like? Ph tested?
Yes March is a good planting time. I would say your south facing raised bed is too narrow. By the time you have got your vines in there you've only got about 18" for the other plants.
I can't visualise your plants - could you attach a diagram?

[Kristen]

Just bought a newly build property

New build properties typically have all the builders rubble and waste buried in the garden, and quick often have a plough-pan in the soil too. Both these things need to be sorted out before trying to start a garden. All the builders rubble needs to be found and removed. To test for a "pan" dig a hole one spade's depth and see how hard the soil is under it. If you can relatively easily dig a second spade's depth then you are fine. If it is as hard as rock then plants' roots won't grow through it - e.g. if it was previously agricultural land and ploughed every year then the bottom of the plough, and the wheel of the tractor running in the furrow during ploughing, will have compacted the subsoil and that is what creates the problem.

For me, in a new build, unless it is on sandy soil I would put in land drains. Easy enough to do, but hard to do later when the garden is all planted up - dig a trench, put in some perforated drainage pipe (comes on a roll - 2" is probably large enough) and cover the pipe (just) with gravel, then put the top soil back on top. Route the pipe to a low point where the water can run away, or a storm drain. If you don't have one then dig a deep hole at the lowest point, put all the builders rubble you found into the hole, to make a soak-away. I recommend that you put a large diameter e.g. pipe, vertically, in the soakaway with a lid so that, in really wet seasons, you can pump the soakaway out (to the street, or an ordinary drain) rather than having a flooded / waterlogged garden. (I've known of people sinking a wheelie bin into the soakaway as the "hollow" to put a pump in, for example)

1. I plan to put a 2-3 Duo Cordon Pear tree - Is this good time to plant if I get a container one (1-2 years old) ??

Any fruit tree in a pot could be planted now. Its too late for bare-rooted trees though, this season.

3. 1 Peach Tree (Avalon Variety, very hardy) on a north-west corner of the garden in a well drained but get partial sun. Will this work ??

Not enough sun, I think, but its not something I know enough about.

4. A family apple tree (3 varieties in one) - Just telling this for Inormation, not planned yet but already so proud of it .. unless someone can share any disadvantage..

Family Apple trees need to be varieties that have the same vigour, otherwise some parts of the tree will grow more strongly than others and in effect you will only get one type of fruit! Pruning also likely to be more complicated. Make 100% sure that the 3 varieties flower at the same time (same "pollination group"). If you buy from a reputable nursery then all those things should be taken care of for you. But I wonder if 3 x Cordons would be better? (Still make sure that the pollination groups are matched)

[Kristen]

people will need to know which country you are in?

Anil let us know your location!

Or even county?

" crop well in south facing fence of Sussex weather"

SmartArse mode now OFF

[veggiechicken]

" crop well in south facing fence of Sussex weather"

SmartArse mode now OFF

Is that Sussex in England

[Kristen]

Is that Sussex in England

My money is on it not being Sussex at all

[WendyC]

" crop well in south facing fence of Sussex weather"

SmartArse mode now OFF

Those years with the I Spy Books clearly paid off. I couldn't spot it even after you quoted. Having said that Sussex is such a big county it is split into East and West with huge range of situations from coastal to Downs, urban or rural. A little more precise location might help.
Thought OP was in need of "urgent" help. So urgent not returned to see responses!

[Methe]

There are some very strange posts on here at the moment.

Urgent? What has ever been urgent about gardening

[PassionateButInexperience]

Hello everyone and so so sorry for not replying early...

Moved into new house and trying to be online through mobile (using it as modem) which has mind of its own so after many attempts I am online .. till I get broadband sorted so really sorry...

Just downloaded the App for this site and realised that so many have replied to help... Many thanks

Location : West Sussex, UK . Its a small village called Crawley Down next to Gatwick Airport near London


Garden Size : 43' x 32'

Surrounding : No tall houses or building, its country side so there are detached houses quick apart

Direction : East facing

Soil is like clay but well drained. For the area where I am planting veggies and trees, I am planning to dig it as deep and wide as possible and fill with good compost.

'I can't visualise your plants - could you attach a diagram?': Will create a diagram for you and post ASAP (hope internet works) but in meanwhile see below if it helps
- South facing wall will have 2.5' x 20' Bed for Grapes and veggies (there will be a family apple tree at the end of the bed) , I can increase the bed width as you experts would recommend
- On the west facing wall I have space of 15' to plant my 3 x Cordon Pear and 2 x Plumb
- at corner where the North facing wall meets the west facing wall, at this corner I plan to put a Morello cherry plant, as far away from walls so it gets good sun
- at corner where the North facing wall meets the east facing wall, at this corner I plan to put a Avalon breed Peach tree (heard avalon is very hardy) , this spot does not get too much sun, only for 8-10 hours a day
- Plan to put veggies on the north facing wall in a bed of 2.5' x 20'

Hope above helps to visualise

The urgency is that beds and top solid and turf are going to be layer this week and I have marked all the plants I need to buy, but don't have confidence if I am doing it right or may be being too greedy here.. so thought to check all you opinions before planting trees ( don't want to do something that can't be undone).. and don't want to loose the time either...

Any more suggestions considering all the information above ( i know, should have given first time itself)

Many thanks again

Anil C.

[yummersetter]

OK, I have a suggestion that you might not be happy with. Back off a bit, and where you want to plant fruit, put in vegetables and annual flowers, just for this year. Have runner beans where you want to put your grape vines and tall plants like nicotiana instead of trees. Watch how the sun moves around and what shades what, which die and which thrive. Meanwhile think really carefully about your permanent fruit planting, read, watch and research everything you can get hold of, speak to fruit growers nearby, spend as much time as you can spare at Wisley, looking at their fruit areas and then in Autumn, you'll have far more knowledge about exactly which varieties you want, where's the best supplier and will end up with something far better in the long run . . and the long run is what fruit tree planting is all about.

[WendyC]

I think Yummersetter is offering really good advice. When you have done all your research you will be able to buy bare rooted plants in the Autumn from a decent nursery, who will be able to give your their expert advice plus will be able to offer you a wide range of varieties on a range of rootstocks. They will have far better choice than even the garden centres round here. I'm not far from you!
As for what happens this week just lay most of it to lawn. Then you can cut out your beds at leisure. The turf you lift is not wasted as you can stack it and make lovely topsoil to put on your beds latter in the Autumn. My top tip in having made two garden from nothing it to think about the shape of the lawn, not the beds themselves. As you garden is virtually square a circular lawn would work quite well. But I'm off on a tangent now!

[Jeanied]

Wisley is just the place you need to visit Anil! Their fruit gardens are such an inspiration, laid out in all sorts of styles - full of brilliant ideas. They also have an amazing allotment style vegetable garden with different trial layouts- I love this place.

[fishpond]

If you decide to visit RHS Wisley (which I heartily recommend)
Consider joining.
You will get free access for you and one other.
You will get discount on everything you buy there. (they never used to advertise this to my knowledge)
Trees and plants are top quality.
As already said, take your time. You need a planting plan at the end of summer, this enables you to get to Wisley early to get the absolute best for your prepared and planned garden.