espalier apple size question

[seneca196]

If you ever find yourself in Versailles, avoid the crowds at the palace and instead head to the Potager du Roi - the king's vegetable patch. It's a bit bigger than your average allotment ... and full of every conceivable style of trained fruit tree.

I should be so lucky! No chance of that for the next few years. Shackled to the family for the forseeable future. I'll be lucky if I can escape them when wondering about farmers markets. I have to wait for them to be distracted by hand-crafted soaps and homemade jams, then wander off to the fruit stalls. (Major disappointment this year - they put out a their russets mid September and they were awful.)

Great going Kristen. You'll surpass that Old Vicarage in no time! You have the space and freedom to experiment that some of us can only dream of. Ever thought of trying a few different styles, as mentioned by Orangepippin? There are some really weird and wonderful things done with apple trees - the worlds your oyster.

[seneca196]

a lot of people in this thread said that if you plant commercial varieties you might as well just buy from the supermarket. But I think there are perfectly valid reasons to choose high yields over perfect flavour, as I described above.

Absolutely Chris. Everyone has their own particular reasons for growing, the important thing is to enjoy what you grow. Ultimately, it's all about getting your apples! Farmers markets are a good alternative, if you can get to them. They taste like "home-grown" yet you can try varieties that would never make it to the supermarket shelves, normally because of appearance. I've tried varieties I've only ever come across in books and websites, but would be unrealistic for me to grow - due to time, skill and space.

As for growing what's on offer in supermarkets - my disease ridden, and currently on life-support, Cox only ever produces a few ugly apples each year, yet they are the most wonderful apples I've ever eaten. Everyone who's seen it thinks it should be cut down and destroyed, but I always say "only after the same is done to me!"

Good eatin' everyone.

[Kristen]

Ever thought of trying a few different styles, as mentioned by Orangepippin? There are some really weird and wonderful things done with apple trees

Got too much to do here to be doing much in the way of "off-script". Espalier is well documented, so I'm out their book in one hand and a ball of twine and secateurs in the other! I've seen some pictures of really pretty and impressive training styles, but not got enough knowledge as something like that, and not enough time to be trying something that is less likely to work first time.

a lot of people in this thread said that if you plant commercial varieties you might as well just buy from the supermarket. But I think there are perfectly valid reasons to choose high yields over perfect flavour, as I described above.

Flavour doesn't have to come at the cost of yield but where it does I personally would choose flavour. For someone with very limited space the choice may be different. Any variety of sweetcorn picked fresh from the garden and cooked immediately tastes amazing compared to supermarket corn, but I'm still fussy about the variety that I grow

Supermarket varieties are well known to customers, but are often chosen as being the most productive for growers. "Productive" might be that they have thick skins so they don't bruise easily, rather than purely yield.

For anyone thinking of having some Apple trees in their garden I recommend going to an Apple Open Day (coming up in the next few weeks ) at a local Apple nursery, where there is the chance to try a slice of dozens of different varieties and then from that a choice can be made as to what you like (plus the nursery will be able to advise on suitability to local soil and weather etc). Taste is a very subjective thing of course ...

[boundtothesoil]

Going back to my example, if both Ashmeads Kernel and Red Windsor were on mm106 as espaliers, would the scion vigor have any effect on the espalier?

I've a couple of Ashmead's Kernel on MM106 and they are hellishly vigorous, with 3-4ft growth of leading shoots per annum - the problem being that the distance between successive leaves (and potential flowering spurs) is huge, leading to extensive lengths of bare wood on the developing branches, unless ruthlessly pruned back. That said, they are growing as bush shaped trees rather than espaliers, which might be a challenge with this variety x rootstock combo

[FB.]

I've a couple of Ashmead's Kernel on MM106 and they are hellishly vigorous

Agreed. Ashmead's Kernel is more vigorous than the books and nurseries suggest and should be reclassified 'T3' vigour.

Of course, for people like me who have difficult growing conditions, such strong varieties are a blessing because they can survive and crop.
Many of the 'old-timers' perform very well in punishing conditions even when neglected - without feeding, watering, spraying, weeding or pruning.
Actually, I think low-nutrient soil is good for them because it calms their vigour down, encourages cropping and avoids bitter pit; a lot of the old-timers suffer bitter pit in fertile soil, but not nearly as much in low-fertility soil when on vigorous rootstocks.