Bramley apple- what to do for the best?

[Guest]

Ok each year for two years I have umm'd and arh'd about a bramley tree in my garden.



The first year (I lived in the house) the fruit was poor and this year it was poor with a case of scab. I don't think it is a particularly good shape, it suckers something dreadful and there isn't a great deal of new growth. The only thing going for it, is it is a fruit tree (so reluctant to get rid) and it stops people cutting the corner from the path.

I just wondered what you would do or any hints and tips. I just don't fancy umming and arhing for a 3rd year

[fishpond]

If it were mine I would remove the grass to the edge of the dripline and rake up any leaves dead twigs on the floor.
Prune out all dead, dying and crossing branches in the winter.
Feed it in the Spring.
Spread some homemade compost or rotted manure under it in spring having given it a good watering.

[FB.]

Looks like it's on M27 or M9 rootstock (slight possibility of M26).
However, it is producing some new growth in the form of suckers, which need removing and you need some commitment to getting rid of any further suckers as soon as you notice them. Suckers need removing all the way back to their point of origin as soon as they are noticed.

Is it definitely Bramley?
Can you take some closer shots of the trunk from ground level to about two-thirds of the way up, from two or three different directions?

With all the suckering and lack of growth higher up, I'm wondering if the lower half of the trunk is damaged (do you use a strimmer near it, do you let a rabbit near it?) or whether it has a fungal canker-like disease (canker, crown rot) blocking the sapflow up the trunk, or whether the rootstock and scion are rejecting each other (sometimes aphids and nematodes can transmit viruses which trigger graft rejection).

Given its modest size there's a good chance that you could dig it up carefully and move it.

Now the suckers have established themselves they will need commitment to get rid.

[Guest]

All the fruit trees are around 20 odd years old. I don't think they have ever had much tlc and all have various wounds and fungus. I will try and take some more pics tomorrow. It seems like a bramley and I have no reason to think otherwise
I did have a plum die months after moving in and there is a poorly lopsided pear that is slowly slowly picking up. One apple (possibly worcester) has come on leaps and bounds this year. The pear and plum out the back look and do well. The other apple produces well but does need tlc.

Oh and no strimmers, no rabbits, no pets near it. So I can't blame them

[yummersetter]

Plant a Peasgood Nonsuch apple to start growing whilst you come round to the idea of getting rid of the Bramley. Bramley apples are easy to buy.

[FB.]

......Plant a Peasgood Nonsuch apple.......

Did you just open an apple book on a random page or is there a reason for choosing it?

I tried some East-Anglian-grown 'Monarch' (cookers) recently and was very impressed; my random sample was better than any Bramley I've ever had. Ironically, Monarch is thought to be a Peasgood's x Dumelow's cross and I could see plenty of resemblance to Dumelow's.
The mother tree didn't seem to have too many problems with disease - just a little scab here and there. The tree was one of only a handful of MM106-rootstock trees in that orchard to be growing normally (only the triploids were growing normally; the diploids were not doing well at all on MM106), and from its health, vigour and general appearance I suspect Monarch is triploid.
Indeed, I suspect Peasgood's and Dumelow's could be triploid too.

[Guest]

Here are some not so lovely pics. I have included one of the suckers as they don't come directly from the trunk. There is also a pic where the branches come from the top of the truck to show an old wound and growth etc. Hope this helps. Please be gentle I did inherit the tree its not all my doing

[Guest]

Oh and if I was to replace it I like the idea of getting a russett or norfolk biffin. Please feel free to say no don't do it or consider....for x, y, z reason

[fishpond]

To me, it looks badly neglected.
As previous post also get rid of those suckers.
Could take a few years, but you should see a marked improvement next year with plenty of new growth.
Hopefully getting rid of the dead, dying, diseased and crossing branches will open the tree up a lot and let in some air and sun.

[Guest]

Hopefully getting rid of the dead, dying, diseased and crossing branches will open the tree up a lot and let in some air and sun.

Sorry for seeming thick (it does come quite naturally these days) You say about getting air and sun in by pruning which on my other trees is fine but you have lost me with this one. To me this is like a five pronged wheel on a trunk, I can't see how you would do it. There is no real height or depth to the top growth. Please feel free to give idiot instructions.

[yummersetter]

Did you just open an apple book on a random page or is there a reason for choosing it?

As if I'd be random! I have three trees of Peasgood Nonsuch and am impressed by the apples, I think its a more interesting and unique fruit of the Bramley type. I bet they are triploids, they are large, striking apples, redder than the usual cooker, one baked is enough for two people. Mid season rather than winter keepers, but we've always eaten every one as soon as they're ripe. Its an apple I'm proud to bring up to the kitchen.

I also have four huge Bramley trees from which I just pick a couple of dozen apples to store, and a few for apple pies, then I leave the other five thousand fruits for the winter birds

There is also a very old Monarch tree that was one towering branch with tiny fruit. I cut it back by two-thirds and trained the resulting growth and now get good crops - in a sunny summer the apples have a delicious strawberry flavour.

[yummersetter]

Peasgood Nonsuch apple, early autumn morning

[FB.]

It looks to me like the blue band (grease band?) has trapped water underneath and allowed Phytophthora crown/collar rot to invade the chronically wet bark. The bronze-coloured bark and the red-ish/brown-ish/purple-ish leaves of the scion gives a clue. I've lost many trees to this disease, but it's usually the MM106 rootstock at and just below ground which gets infected.
The fungal invasion of the trunk has cut off the sapflow, so the roots are venting their energy out in the form of suckers.
The dwarfing rootstocks such as M27 and M9 - and M26 to some extent - have some resistance and that's probably why it hasn't already spread below the graft.

The grafted part of the tree will probably die. There is no reliable treatment or cure.

Choose yourself a nice new tree and start again. As you're not far away I might be able to offer a maiden MM111 of something interesting, or a piece of MM106 or MM111 rootstock with some scion wood. It's embarrassing to say but I'm not sure whether my Norfolk Beefing is actually true to type so I won't offer graftwood from it.

Some pictures below of some of my trees which have died from crown rot.

[Guest]

It looks to me like the blue band (grease band?) has trapped water underneath and allowed Phytophthora crown/collar rot to invade the chronically wet bark.

Now you say that I think it was the previous band. I changed them last year and I did have issues trying to get them off on a couple of trees and they have left dark patches. I did brutalise the tree yesterday in the hope it might do something, but at the same time discovered there is nothing to the roots. I went to get rid off the stake due to rubbing only to have to prop the whole thing up again. I thought I would give it two years max. to give up the ghost.

After reading up on Phytophthora I think I will put a stop on myself getting any new trees until I am happy the existing ones are going in the right direction. After losing a plum, having a golden chain tree on the way out, now this. (As long as I don't get ash die back - its a big, big, tree!)

I mean this in a good way, but it is nice to hear people that actually know what they are on about say about failures.

Thank you so much for your help and kind offer.

[FB.]

Looking again at the alleged suckers, I'm not sure they're part of the apple tree (maybe not apple at all; just a seedling of something else), which would be in agreement with you finding that the tree was not well-anchored.

I would not try to wait it out because Phytophthora can take several years to kill a plant and in all that time the sick plant will be shedding spores into the environment. Your soil and probably your neighbours will now contain Phytophthora spores and they will be happy to sit there for several years before coming into contact with and infecting a suitable host plant under suitable conditions. Phytopthora species can attack a wide range of plants, from rhubarb to strawberries to apples to ornamental plants and is very happy to feed on rotten fruits left laying on the ground, so most orchards, fruit gardens and allotments will have some level of infestation.

If you replace the tree, how big would you want its successor to be when mature?
Do you want something that has the same use (cooking) and same season (October through to spring) or are you not fussy about its use and season?