Bramley trees

[Kier]

Firstly im new on here, so I hope its a good site
I have 5 bramleys 2 modern about 5 years old but the apples are not very good small to medium ripen early and cook too pulpy, on a smallish rootstock

the other 3 are more than 50 year old 2 of them have large apples up to two pounds each have good colour and keep / cook / taste very good , the last one never has large apples and I don't eat them because I have too many, these trees are about 25ft tall

my questions are , why are the new bramleys so inferior? is it rootstock
having lost one of the larger trees two years ago , im thinking of trying to take a graft from one of the larger trees , what root stock is best ? I have plenty of room and don,t mind how big the trees are but want to get as good an apple as pos

[Kristen]

I hope its a good site

I doubt you'll get an unbiased opinion on that one !!!

my questions are , why are the new bramleys so inferior? is it rootstock

Might be, but I'm guessing it might be pruning.

Do you know for sure what the rootstock was?

I have several apples trained on Espalier wires, and also a number of old, mature, apple trees. I much prefer the Espalier, from a management and pruning perspective. Dunno how suitable that is if you only want Bramleys, part of the reason I built the Espalier was to be able to have as many different apple varieties as possible - from super first early to very very late fruiting

[Guest]

Where did you get the modern ones from? (i.e. reputable nursery or supermarket) I know its a basic question but rule out the obvious

Have you got any pics? There are several really helpful fruity grapes on here (unfortunately, not me) but they may be able to pick up on things that have not been noticed or overlooked.

[FB.]

my questions are , why are the new bramleys so inferior? is it rootstock

Are you 100% certain they are Bramley? Could they be a variety that just happens to look like Bramley - or mislabelled by the nursery?

If they are definitely Bramley, it's probably the rootstock that's too weak. It might be a case of replant disease due to planting young trees near to old trees of the same type. Again, rootstock will play a part in tolerance of replant disease.
Which rootstock are they on? What's your location and soil quality/depth/fertility?

having lost one of the larger trees two years ago , im thinking of trying to take a graft from one of the larger trees , what root stock is best ? I have plenty of room and don,t mind how big the trees are but want to get as good an apple as pos

From what you've said, it sounds like you need M25 or MM111 rootstock. Both have advantages and disadvantages and I use a roughly equal number of both to hedge my bets.

[Kier]

bramleys

Are you 100% certain they are Bramley? Could they be a variety that just happens to look like Bramley - or mislabelled by the nursery?

If they are definitely Bramley, it's probably the rootstock that's too weak. It might be a case of replant disease due to planting young trees near to old trees of the same type. Again, rootstock will play a part in tolerance of replant disease.
Which rootstock are they on? What's your location and soil quality/depth/fertility?



From what you've said, it sounds like you need M25 or MM111 rootstock. Both have advantages and disadvantages and I use a roughly equal number of both to hedge my bets.

Hi im in north Kent
They had a label on then saying they were bramleys but cant remember where I bought them, might have been a supermarket though, dont know what root stock but are 9ft high, there was an orchard on the site but cleared it 30yrs ago been grass ever since

[FB.]

On a tangent: there are many other apple varieties as good as, or better than, Bramley.

Why not consider some different varieties to extend your season (summer, autumn, winter) a range of uses (cooker, eater, juicer, cider) and a wider range of pest/disease resistance.

[FB.]

Hi im in north Kent
They had a label on then saying they were bramleys but cant remember where I bought them, might have been a supermarket though, dont know what root stock but are 9ft high, there was an orchard on the site but cleared it 30yrs ago been grass ever since

So they're reached 9ft but produce small fruit. I'd guess the rootstock is either M26 or MM106.
I found that once I stopped watering MM106 in summer, the fruit quality and fruit size plummeted and the trees became sickly - about half have died so far, with one or two dying each year.
My MM106 'trees' (actually runted-out bushes) produce fruit the size of crab apples unless I water them regularly in summer or unless it's a wet summer, in which case they can produce good quantities of decent sized fruit.

M25 and MM111 don't have that problem; they are much more tolerant of problems and neglect than MM106.
I just leave my M25 and MM111 trees to get on with it and they are no trouble apart from in the early years when a couple of nurseries sent me a number of diseased rootstocks which died from crown rot after a few years. Due to my soil being shallow, infertile and dry they don't grow uncontrollably and in fact crop as soon in life and as heavily (with no attention) as my MM106's did when I was giving the MM106's the full TLC.

[FB.]

They had a label on then saying they were bramleys

Take a few pictures each month of the blossom, trees, leaves and fruit during 2015 and post the pictures on here for people to confirm the identity.
It's not unheard of for trees to be mislabelled or some naughty suppliers to substitute varieties without telling you.

[Kier]

bramleys

On a tangent: there are many other apple varieties as good as, or better than, Bramley.

Why not consider some different varieties to extend your season (summer, autumn, winter) a range of uses (cooker, eater, juicer, cider) and a wider range of pest/disease resistance.

OK make a recommendation for another cooker better than bramley

[FB.]

OK make a recommendation for another cooker better than bramley

I grow Gravenstein (early-season), Gascoyne's Scarlet (mid-season), Belle de Boskoop (late-season) and Edward VII (very late-season). They are on MM111 or M25 and, like Bramley, all are triploid, tolerant of difficult conditions/neglect, fairly vigorous and have large attractive blossoms.

I prefer them all to Bramley, although they need different cooking times/methods and cook to different textures.
They have the added benefit of being dual purpose.

[Kier]

Bramleys

I grow Gravenstein (early-season), Gascoyne's Scarlet (mid-season), Belle de Boskoop (late-season) and Edward VII (very late-season). They are on MM111 or M25 and, like Bramley, all are triploid, tolerant of difficult conditions/neglect, fairly vigorous and have large attractive blossoms.

I prefer them all to Bramley, although they need different cooking times/methods and cook to different textures.
They have the added benefit of being dual purpose.

Which would be a first choice!! and are the fruit large

I have decided to go to Brogdale this weekend weather permitting, maybe they have one or two of those, or even some fruit to try

[yummersetter]

OK make a recommendation for another cooker better than bramley

Peasgood Nonsuch

[yummersetter]

OK make a recommendation for another cooker better than bramley

Blenheim Orange, Rev Wilkes, Orleans Reinette

[Kier]

Thanks all names noted and am still hoping to get to Brogdale this weekend , to see if I can buy any of the fruit or trees, always thought Bramleys were best,

although home grown cooking apples are the best

I suppose my main attributes for a cooker would be to store longer than a bramley and taste better

[yummersetter]

In that case I withdraw the Reverend ( early cooker ) Peasgood ( mid season ) and Orleans Reinette ( over by Christmas). All my suggestions have alternative, interesting flavours to Bramleys. I have five Bramley trees from 30 to 100+ years old but rarely use the apples from more than one as they are so prolific. All of mine are large standard trees and produce huge apples, some are old Crimson Bramleys. I like Russets for cooking and my main Jan / Feb eater and cooker is Somerset Golden Russet, but its very unlike a Bramley, the pieces stay whole when cooked, Perfect for Tarte Tatin but not the variety for Mom's Apple Pie.
You might like to look into the interesting issues of pollination, vigour and diploid / triploid etc apples on this group, if you haven't come across this, there's a mass of information here if you do a search.