Old Bramley apple tree (3), extension from original thread

[fishpond]

Having been up a set of steps, balancing precariously and realising just how tall this tree is (over 20ft high), and If I fall, which is quite likely, I have decided to give the top pruning a miss.(its at times like these you wish you were still in the invincible age bracket 10-30's), sadly I am not.
I am also not happy with root pruning.
I have decided to take the easy way out, underplant it anyway and let it do its own thing until I find a way of pruning it that doesn't involve me being in an ambulance or hearse.
Any suggestions?

PS. Does anybody know how big this thing could grow, I assume it is on its own rootstock, as it has been there at least 50+years ?

[Guest]

I am also not happy with root pruning.
I have decided to take the easy way out, underplant it anyway and let it do its own thing until I find a way of pruning it that doesn't involve me being in an ambulance or hearse.
Any suggestions?

PS. Does anybody know how big this thing could grow, I assume it is on its own rootstock, as it has been there at least 50+years ?

Why are you not happy with root pruning? Is it the you have never done it so you are weery of it? (I have never done it either , but FB is very knowledgeable and helpful) It is a quicker step than underplanting, as underplanting needs to establish before it can compete against your very well established bramley.

As I am sure you are aware the easy way out is usually not the best way out. Can you see a graft line on the trunk? 50+ is not a good indicator as grafting has been done for years, but at the same time some trees even though grafted can end up growing on their own roots. Bramley is a vigorous tree if on its own roots.

If you are still worried take some more pics - close ups from different angles.

[fishpond]

I have just been up and studied the tree trunk, there does not appear to be any indication of a rootstock being used, all be it, there may have been but it is not visible.
Any recommendations on a pruner that would extend far enough to prune this now and the summer?
" FB is very knowledgeable and helpful" couldn't agree more.

"Bramley is a vigorous tree" from where I am standing, you are right.

[Guest]

For me it is called my brother Know of any cheap labour out your way?

[FB.]

Does anybody know how big this thing could grow, I assume it is on its own rootstock, as it has been there at least 50+years ?

I think it's on MM106 rootstock and it's perhaps 30-40 years old.

Its size and growth rate was probably previously relatively modest because it was mature and fully laden with fruiting spurs and fruiting tips which were absorbing most of the water and nutrients the roots could find and turning them into fruit.
It looks like it was in perfect balance of cropping and growth, about 10-13ft/3-4m in size (about what would be expected of a mature MM106)......then everything changed......

Then someone came along 'gave it a trim' and removed the fruiting parts along with removing its competitors and giving it fertiliser, so it had nowhere else to channel all that energy other than into new shoots.
So the tree put out all those long whippy upright branches and will continue to do so until soil fertility falls and until it has re-grown the fruiting spurs and tips that have been lost.

[fishpond]

Hi FB
Trying to find old phots, but believe me, I have lived in the area for 20+ years, it was a mature tree even then.
All I pruned out last year was dead, dying, diseased and crossing branches and 1 limb which was partly rotten.
I did not remove the fruiting parts
The only competition it had is the walnut next to it (still there), Spanish Bluebells(trillions) underneath with a smattering of bindweed.
The whole surrounding area infested with weeds
I think my only mistakes were feeding and watering. (SBluebells had to go anyway, as I hate them with a vengeance)
Any recommendations for a extendable pruner?
I have just been reminded that the guy who tended it previously was effectively house bound from 2009-2013, so from 2009 it was never touched.
Still looking for a possible phot, maybe tomorrow.

[FB.]

I think my only mistakes were feeding and watering. (SBluebells had to go anyway, as I hate them with a vengeance)

In that case, reverse what you have done and the tree will revert to its former behaviour of cropping without growing too much.

Any recommendations for a extendable pruner?

I have a couple of long-handled extendable loppers (one with curved blade and one with straight blade) but I can't remember where they came from and they aren't anything fancy.
Everything grows so poorly here and doesn't get very big (and I grow them in grass without feeding or using chemicals) so I only need to use loppers occasionally.
Most of my pruning can be done with a step ladder and secateurs.

On younger trees I try for minimal pruning and often use tip-pinching (just the top half-inch to inch of the several-inch-long new shoots) during June-July to reduce the number of long straggly shoots, increase branching and generally get them to shape up how I want without having to prune them much during the winter.

[fishpond]

Found phot from early last year before I started.

Sorry for not giving you the whole story, but on reflection, this tree hadn't been touched from 2009 until I took out the ddd & Crossing branches and removed the rotten limb before this photograph above. (which would have been after xmas 2014)
As you can see, the S bluebells have nearly all gone now and a lot of the whippy growth is already there all be it a bit thinner
It was also fed and watered(couple of hours min) at least once a week all through the growing season of 2014.

[yummersetter]

I've just gone back and looked at your first pictures as well . . I have some very old Bramleys, large trees in photos from the 1920s so maybe 100 years plus. Perhaps because you have such a different soil,(our orchard is on clay over shale), our trees look completely different - they have continuous dense bark and much straighter branches ( though lichen laden, hollow and full of woodpecker holes). We have good crops on them, many barrowfuls of large healthy apples. When we employ tree surgeons to prune the very large trees they rope themselves safely to the tree and wear a harness . . but if you don't want to go to those heights, it'll have to be root pruning, which doesn't look too difficult in your situation.

[FB.]

our trees look completely different - they have continuous dense bark and much straighter branches

I think the curly-twiggy appearance in the 2013 picture is mostly a result of short new growth and spurs because the tree virtually stopped growing a long time ago. Now conditions have changed its shape is changing and it is sending out those long straight shoots which more closely resemble your trees.

[fishpond]

I've just gone back and looked at your first pictures as well . . I have some very old Bramleys, large trees in photos from the 1920s so maybe 100 years plus. Perhaps because you have such a different soil,(our orchard is on clay over shale), our trees look completely different - they have continuous dense bark and much straighter branches ( though lichen laden, hollow and full of woodpecker holes). We have good crops on them, many barrowfuls of large healthy apples. When we employ tree surgeons to prune the very large trees they rope themselves safely to the tree and wear a harness . . but if you don't want to go to those heights, it'll have to be root pruning, which doesn't look too difficult in your situation.

Hi Yummersetter
Do you have a photograph of your trees ?

[yummersetter]

If I can, I'll take some tomorrow . . they don't photograph well at a distance, as the background is a scribble of yet more trees, in an orchard of 40.

[rustylady]

I'm no expert but I think if you stop feeding and watering the tree will sort itself out

[yummersetter]

Here's a picture from last winter of one of the old Bramleys. It gave us a winter's firewood when it was beheaded in 1990 to half height to save it from toppling in the gales . . now this one's more a wildlife sanctuary than a fruit provider. There is a rookery 100ft to the left so I leave the mistletoe on that side to give the nesting birds a bit of security and a chance that their chicks won't become rooklet breakfast. In spring when you tap the trunk, the whole tree hums with baby birds in various nooks and crannies. There are new shoots from low down on the main trunk so it's optimistically thinking of starting again for another century.

[fishpond]

Amazing, thank you.
It looks like it had a lot of flower buds then or they may be old spurs.