Pear chat

[Guest]

As some of you may know I am getting in to the fruit side of things and the more people I talk to people the more opinions and conflict there is so just wanted to have a general chat in regards to pears and see what peoples opinions and experiences are

What are peeps fav. pear varieties?
Anyone have any heritage varieties and what do they think of them?
What rootstocks do people tend to graft on to?
Anyone had issues grafting heritage varieties on certain rootstocks like quince?
Any other points you deem noteworthy

Thanks as always

[fishpond]

Do not plant Quince rootstock on limey soil, you will eventually get problems with nutrient deficiency.
Comice is apparently the one for melt in the mouth taste. (purchasing one this coming winter).

[sparrow100]

Doyenne du comice. I bought some from a supermarket and loved them so I now have 2 trees, both fruiting for the first time this year. One is an espalier on Quince rootstock. The other came from van meuwen with minimal info and is supposedly a dwarf.

I'm likely to move out of the area in a couple of years, so am planting the trees in 60L buckets buried in the ground to help me move them when I need to.

[FB.]

What are peeps fav. pear varieties?

Doyenne d'Ete. When properly ripened it's well-flavoured - they're so good that you have to be quick or the blackbirds will eat them. It's one of the first pears to ripen, usually mid-late July in my climate. Tree is considered to be weak-growing, but that's largely because it really doesn't like being grown on Quince rootstocks - they often die after several years. On Pear seedling/P.communis/Pyrodwarf it's as vigorous as any other pear.

Anyone have any heritage varieties and what do they think of them?

Doyenne d'Ete. Jargonelle. Josephine de Malines. All are trouble-free but tend to crop lightly due to poor pollination (bees only go to pear flowers if there's nothing else left).

What rootstocks do people tend to graft on to?

Pyrodwarf and Pyrus communis. P.com (seedling) tends to do nothing for a year or two - to the point of nearly dying - then really takes off if it hasn't died. Not as drought-resistant as apples though. As mentioned above: Quince rootstocks can be unhappy on chalky, alkaline or even dry sandy soils.
I find fruit quality (size, colour, flavour, texture) tends to be better on Pear seedling rootstock compared to Pyrodwarf or Quince stocks. Pyrodwarf tends to flower profusely (vigorous yet precocious) and in a (rare) good year it can produce an enormous crop for the size of the tree.

Anyone had issues grafting heritage varieties on certain rootstocks like quince?

Many varieties of pear are not very compatible with Quince. I've probably got some old books or nursery brochures which might list some incompatibilities if you have any particular varieties in mind.

Any other points you deem noteworthy

Poor storage qualities. Difficulty determining the correct ripeness. Poor pollination/very few pollinator trees in nearby gardens/erratic cropping/light cropping. Dislike of drought. Susceptibilty to fireblight. Upright growth habit requires regular pruning to keep fruit within reach. Far fewer varieties available.

edited to add:
Many old varieties will be carrying all kinds of virus diseases so grafts may not take well. The mother tree may also be cankered, which makes grafts less successful or they may die from canker which somehow was latent within them.

[Guest]

TY and TY FB . I had been looking into Suffolk Thorn and Hacons Incomparable when I was told heritage don't tend to take on quince and are best on pear seedling. It was the first I had heard of it. There was me thinking I could train some etc. etc. only to find I really need to learn more I was so chuffed with my apples......I may be running before I can walk. Also it was the age old story of the older varieties tend to be rarer because there are now superior pears.

[FB.]

Certain pear varieties are compatible with Quince and can be used as an interstem.

I would say the older varieties are rare because modern varieties are more suited to what the commercial growers want and therefore what consumers have come to expect.

Additionally, the longer a variety has been widely grown, the more time pests and diseases have evolved to attack that variety. A good phrase might be that its resistance is 'worn out'.
Diseases are often better adapted to attack just on variety and its relatives, rather than all varieties. So a strain of scab, mildew or canker which can attack one variety of pear may not be able to attack other varieties. Diseases follow the path of least resistance: they will optimise to attack the common varieties so they can easily jump from one tree to the next one of the same type down the road without having to evolve any further.

But eventually a 'worn out' variety can become so scarce again that there are no pests and diseases around to attack it, so it shows good resistance. A variety which is common (and therefore sickly) in some regions can be very resistant in other regions where the variety hasn't been grown.

[Guest]

Certain pear varieties are compatible with Quince and can be used as an interstem.

Have you ever done the interstem method? Would you do it all in one go or would you say do it over 2 years?

Also the growth rate (how vigorous), is it determined by the rootstock or the interstem? The couple of articles I have read suggest it is the interstem

[FB.]

Have you ever done the interstem method? Would you do it all in one go or would you say do it over 2 years?

Also the growth rate (how vigorous), is it determined by the rootstock or the interstem? The couple of articles I have read suggest it is the interstem

I don't use interstems but I don't see why you can't do both at the same time as long as the scions are taken from vigorous-growing shoots on healthy trees. Of course, the risk of a double-graft failing will be much higher.

Vigour is influenced by all parts of the tree although in the past vigorous interstems have been used to boost the vigour of the whole tree.
The variety which comprises the lower trunk is thought to have a greater effect on vigour than other parts but it's not totally reliant on the interstem vigour and I haven't personally seen sufficient proof because interstem trees aren't common.
MM111/M9 interstem trees are smaller than MM111 but larger than M9.

I would take an average of rootstock vigour, interstem vigour and scion vigour as a guide to the tree vigour.
With pears, bear in mind that published vigour ratings probably refers to their size/growth rate on Quince, but some varieties which are weak on Quince are strong on pear. It's hardly surprising that two different species (pear and quince) don't always graft well together.
It may actually be the incompatibility of the two parts which makes the tree smaller than the wild form.

I have some old books with useful info on pears - if you have a few old and rare varieties you're interested in let me know and I'll see what ye olde books say.

[fishpond]

So, do you think it would it be possible to use Pyrodwarf as the main root stock, then either Quince A or C as the intermediate rootstock to limit the eventual size of the tree?

[Guest]

So, do you think it would it be possible to use Pyrodwarf as the main root stock, then either Quince A or C as the intermediate rootstock to limit the eventual size of the tree?

In my case I can't use quince as interstem. The issue is certain pears need to be grafted to another pear but there is a lack of rootstock choices and quince gives the smaller finished tree (training options). It would work (the way round you have said) if you are after a smaller tree but wanted a stronger root system if you had poor soil. Does that make sense?

I think I will end up using pyrodwarf and have larger trained trees. Anyone feel free to say why it shouldn't be done.

I might have a play on the interstem. Feb is a long way off - plenty of time to change my mind

[fishpond]

[QUOTE=Norfolkgrey;1349615]In my case I can't use quince as interstem. The issue is certain pears need to be grafted to another pear but there is a lack of rootstock choices and quince gives the smaller finished tree (training options). It would work (the way round you have said) if you are after a smaller tree but wanted a stronger root system if you had poor soil. Does that make sense?

I think I will end up using pyrodwarf and have larger trained trees. Anyone feel free to say why it shouldn't be done.

I might have a play on the interstem. Feb is a long way off - plenty of time to change

Exactly what I was thinking, as my soil is flint, clay, chalk.
Even though my pear trees have been in situ for a number of years, 1 is on the way out(even though its just about holding its own at the moment) and I fully expect the others to follow suit in the not to distant future.
3 to 3.5 metres I can live with, over 4 metres is a bit much