Very new to fruit tree scene and need some advice

[Player53]

Hi all and thanks for having me. Im from Aberdeen Scotland and i have just bought 2 fruit trees pretty much as an inpuls buy!! I bought a Golden Delisious eating apple first and after speaking to a woman in Homebase about the polination she advised to just get another tree and they would polinate each other so i then went and bough a Boskoop cooking apple tree.

Once i came home i gathered from the internet and a page i found too that the trees need a polinator and that some can polinate. Well turns out both mine need a polinator. Looking up the same site (GrowVeg.com) they said the both my trees need a polinator for example Granny Smith which is a polinator. The store i got them from (The Range) only has the two that i have and one other but i dont know what type it is yet. If its a polinator then problem solved but if not then im not sure what im to do??

Pruning ect i can get that sorted out and same with planting but this polinating thing is pugging me now. Any help would be welcome.

Thank you

[veggiechicken]

Hi Player and welcome to the Forum
I'm going to move your post into "Feeling Fruity" where it will be seen by more Fruit tree growers.

[Player53]

Hi Player and welcome to the Forum
I'm going to move your post into "Feeling Fruity" where it will be seen by more Fruit tree growers.

Perfect thank you

[Kirk]

Golden Delicious:
Duploid (normal for want of a better term in regards pollination)
Flowers in Group 4 (latish I think)

Boskoop, also called Belle De Boskoop.
Triploid (Not so normal )
Flowers group 3.

If they are 100% as described then the GD will pollinate the Boskoop but the Boskoop will not pollinate the GD. But even that is an "if".

In which case you may/will need something to pollinate the GD.
As group 3 and 4 are next to each other they overlap.

What are you considering as a third or are you happy to take the chance that another apple reasonably local will provide pollen? Any other apple trees around you basically?

I have a plum that is not self fertile, it is the only plum around, it somehow gets loaded with fruit however.

Do you want another apple tree, or would something like a columinar type one suit as they form a sort of 12ft stick, with apples and the blossom from them will pollinate if the correct variety.

[KairdiffKid]

Player53 - As already been said you'll probably* need a 3rd apple tree (it's becoming a pet peeve with me that DIY sheds and supermarkets are selling Triploids). The thing is that because Boskoop (Belle de Boskoop?) is a Triploid not only will it not pollinate the GD it also needs a 2nd pollinator

*Unless you're lucky and a nearby garden has a suitable pollinator.

As you're from Scotland I'd suggest getting a James Grieve (I've seen them in places like ASDA and Wilkinsons) it'll pollinate both the Golden Delicious and the Boskoop, and as an old Scottish variety it's well suited to the climate! James Grieve is both culinary and dessert.

[Muddy_Boots]

Hi Kirk and KairdiffKid

I'm afraid you lost me straight after

Duploid

and

Triploid

Didn't realise there were differences in apple trees, I thought an apple tree was just ...... an apple tree. Shows just how wrong you can be.

[veggiechicken]

Wait until they start on pollination groups!!

There's a good guide to pollination at Pollination of apple trees and other fruit trees
and to pollination partners for named varieties Online pollination checker for fruit trees

[BUFFS]

get a crab apple and be sorted, they certainly made my life easy, seem to pollinate all the apples, when I planted one near the fruiting apples they all seemed to take off and they produce very well now, I have russets, bramleys, james grieves and 3 types in pots I cant remember their names, and its raining, so I am not going out there, eight apple trees in all and apart from last year when the sun never arrived, we only buy apples for a few months a year plus we have pies, crumbles juice etc...

[Invicta]

I think that golden delicious was bred in the USA and I am not sure how well it performs in the british climate. James Grieve was bred in eastern Scotland so should do well in Aberdeen. I suggest you find out which apple varieities are best suited to your local climate.

[Kirk]

Duploid and Triploid:
Duploid is sort of normal, the tree will pollinate any other apple that it is close to.
Triploid: for whatever reason the pollen of a "triploid" tends to be sterile or not very good. The pollen from a triploid will not (easily) pollinate another apple.

The 2 trees you have one is a duploid and one is a triploid. So the Duploid will pollinate more or less anything, whereas the triploid will not pollinate much if at all.

Part of the problem is that the terms have been used but are not always it would seem correct or accurate and there is some reassesment being done. For now just accept the present descriptions.

As to the mention of flowering time, this is generally split into 5 - simply Groups 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 1 is early and 5 is late. Late is good for Aberdeen as there is a higher chance of late frosts.

Ideally you get flowering groups all the same say all group 4, and the trees should all blossom at the same time.

But trees are difficult and I have found that even if all say group 3 they blossom at differnet times, seems they have not read the book saying they should all flower at the same time. Should be OK if you just get trees that are in the same or adjacent groups.

Will say I have one apple that is group 1 and should flower first, it usually comes out either last or second last. So not sure how accurate these actually are.

As said if there are any other apples close then you will likely not have a problem as pollen from them will likely pollinate the GD. If there are non then for safety you need a third tree and that third neeeds to be a Duploid in order for the third one to pollinate the GD as the Boskoop will either not pollinate the GD or will do it poorly and so any GD crop will be lessened.

One aspect is if you get a third you could need an early variety. Sorry not easy to explain why. Find a reasonable place or get the names of say 3 or 4 varieties then ask again here. Then we can set about confusing you a lot more, as by then we will have worked out your weaknesses.

[veggiechicken]

I thought its Diploid, not Duploid

More on Triploid apples at Triploid apple varieties

[Player53]

Hi thanks guys very helpfull. At the start of all this tree buying i just wanted the one tree (the GD) that will just sort its self out and make eating apples. Only reason i got the second (boskoop) was because i was told by the lady in Homebase that it would polenate the other?

So question is, i dont mind ditching the two i have now and getting one tree (with the advice of you guys on which to get) that will produce by its self eating apples?

Or ill keep the GD becuase i love them apples and get a second tree that will polenate its self and the GD at the same time?

Thank you again.

[DannyK]

By the look of this table you'll need another two trees.

Online pollination checker for fruit trees

[FB.]

Wait until they start on pollination groups!!

Wait until people mention incompatibility alleles.

Golden Delicious is 2,3.
Boskoop is 2,3,5.

Therefore Boskoop is likely to reject pollen from Golden Delicious due to sharing of incompatibility alleles. It's mother nature's way of reducing the chance of inbreeding.

And Golden Delicious is likely to reject most of the pollen from Boskoop, and what pollen isn't rejected has a high chance of being of low quality due to being derived from a triploid.

Then throw in the possible problem that Golden Delicious may not flower much, if at all, in a cool dull climate.

Self-fertile and self-sterile are not 'black and white' 'yes or no'.
It depends on many things, including climate.
Most varieties have a temperature range at which their pollen best fertilises other flowers, but the ideal varies from one variety to another.
If the weather at flowering time is just right for that variety, it may be self-fertile in that season. In other seasons with different weather it may be self-sterile.
Varieties like James Grieve have pollen which copes well with cold spring weather and JG may be self-fertile in many seasons. On the other hand, pollen from Cox supposedly does not germinate (pollinate) very well in cooler spring weather, although in favourable weather Cox can be self-fertile.

Another bizarre thing is that triploids seem more likely to be part-self fertile than diploids, and more likely to be able to produce fruit without much pollination - fruit from triploids often has few or no pips.

However, self-pollinated fruit (or pollinated by a related variety) seems to be lower quality and often troubled with bitter pit.

[Paulieb]

Hi thanks guys very helpfull. At the start of all this tree buying i just wanted the one tree (the GD) that will just sort its self out and make eating apples. Only reason i got the second (boskoop) was because i was told by the lady in Homebase that it would polenate the other?

Perhaps one of the pitfalls of not buying from a garden centre or specialist.

DT Browns have half price fruit trees with a code at the moment as the bareroot season s coming to an end. And Keepers also have their end of season sale on.

There could well possibly be an apple tree/s close enough to pollinate your trees even if you can't see them.

As previously said a crab apple will flower for a longer period thus be very useful. An alternative could be to grow in some space saving ways such as cordons, stopovers or espaliers/fans, where it's possible to fit multiple varieties in a small space.

Even choosing a brand new tree could produce varying results as even the best 'self fertile' variety will be helped by a close by pollinator.

Do you know what the rootstocks are of the trees that you bought. This can determine many things like disease resistance but mainly the final size of the tree.