Pot size for patio fruits

[TrixC]

In a moment of weakness I've ordered two patio fruit trees, an apricot and a peach. What size pots should I plant them in? I understand they will ultimately require large pots of 60cm or so, but assuming they'll be fairly small when they arrive am I better to use a smaller pot and increase the size over time?

[WendyC]

Yes, you are right in thinking it is best to pot them on over time. I'd choose a pot big enough to contain the roots without cramping them. A compost mix with a bit of soil in it such as JI no3 will retain nutrients longer than plain MPC. It also has the advantage of being a bit heavier and can stop pots blowing over.

[TrixC]

That's great, thanks. What about feed, should I add bonemeal, or slow release fertiliser granules? That's what I'd normally add when planting trees in the ground.

[TrixC]

The trees have now arrived and I have potted them. These are the first patio fruit trees I've bought and I was a bit surprised by the way they've been grafted. Instead of grafting the scion on top of the rootstock as is usual for a freestanding tree, it appears two side branches have been grafted on at right angles to the rootstock. Is this standard practice for patio trees? It looks rather ugly, although I suppose they'll look much better once the foliage grows.

I've attached a few pictures to show what I mean about the grafting.

[lookbettertomorow]

Hi Trix, Unless you have planted a tad too deep so we can't see the scion graft, the graft should always be above ground level otherwise you'll get suckers and it all goes Pear shape?? I recon what you've got there are chip buds. Nothing wrong with chip budding,in fact the buds have been very well placed, a professional job I would say. For what it's worth I believe you have a fantastic pair of trees there, the Peach will certainly blossom this spring,it's covered in buds-too many so make sure you thin it. I bought 2 last year and all I got were 2 twigs about 8" tall.
To make them super smart, perhaps remove the little stub, not yet though do it in summer.

[TrixC]

Hi Trix, Unless you have planted a tad too deep so we can't see the scion graft, the graft should always be above ground level otherwise you'll get suckers and it all goes Pear shape?? I recon what you've got there are chip buds. Nothing wrong with chip budding,in fact the buds have been very well placed, a professional job I would say. For what it's worth I believe you have a fantastic pair of trees there, the Peach will certainly blossom this spring,it's covered in buds-too many so make sure you thin it. I bought 2 last year and all I got were 2 twigs about 8" tall.
To make them super smart, perhaps remove the little stub, not yet though do it in summer.

That's great, thanks for the reassurance. I certainly couldn't see any graft lower down on the tree, I'm sure I haven't buried it. This is my first time growing patio fruit so it's a bit of an experiment, it would be great to get some fruit but even if I don't the blossom is so pretty.

[maverick451]

Where did you get the tree from Trix? they look really good

[DiggerSean]

They've been top grafted. The theory is the longer the dwarfing root stock the more effect it will have on the ultimate size of the tree. Look to be good plants.

[chrisdb]

They've been top grafted. The theory is the longer the dwarfing root stock the more effect it will have on the ultimate size of the tree. Look to be good plants.

Is there any evidence for this theory? It sounds odd to me. A bit of extra wood in the way isn't going to significantly affect nutrient transportation from the roots, so I really don't see what the difference is to a normal graft union. I'm pretty sure it's the join itself and the differences between rootstock and scion that affect size, not the initial size/mass of the two parts.

If it works that way, could I go the other way get a 20m tall apple by grafting onto m25 about 1m above ground level?

[TrixC]

Where did you get the tree from Trix? they look really good

To be honest I wouldn't recommend the seller due to an unsatisfactory dispatch and delivery experience, I prefer not to name companies I'm not willing to recommend.

[DiggerSean]

Is there any evidence for this theory? It sounds odd to me. A bit of extra wood in the way isn't going to significantly affect nutrient transportation from the roots, so I really don't see what the difference is to a normal graft union. I'm pretty sure it's the join itself and the differences between rootstock and scion that affect size, not the initial size/mass of the two parts.

If it works that way, could I go the other way get a 20m tall apple by grafting onto m25 about 1m above ground level?

I don't think ungrafted M25 rootstock would make a 20m tree?

Like I said it's theory and the interaction between rootstock and scion is quite complex and not a one way street, as scion does have influence on rootstock also. The exchange of growth hormone has more effect on ultimate size than nutrient transportation, that's more to do with growing conditions.

[chrisdb]

I don't think ungrafted M25 rootstock would make a 20m tree?

Like I said it's theory and the interaction between rootstock and scion is quite complex and not a one way street, as scion does have influence on rootstock also. The exchange of growth hormone has more effect on ultimate size than nutrient transportation, that's more to do with growing conditions.

I was joking about the m25. My logic was that if more of a dwarf rootstock makes the tree smaller, more of a vigorous rootstock should make it bigger. Of course this logic doesn't work in reality as there must be a limit to how big a tree a given rootstock can support.

At least on the dwarfing size, I don't think it's true that the size of the rootstock if ungrafted is necessarily similar to the size of the grafted tree. I understood that incompatibility at the union was also at least partly responsible for dwarfing, which would suggest that ungrafted dwarf rootstocks might be a bit bigger than grafted trees on the same rootstock.

I was wondering if the reason the two side grafts high up is better is nothing to do with having a longer length of rootstock, and more to do with the grafted wood growing more horizontally from the stem. Horizontal growth is generally less vigorous and more fruitful than vertical growth.