Fruit tree dunce

[bario1]

Hi All,

I've got a bit of extra space on my plot as from this year, and I'm considering a few fruit trees (apple, pear, cherry) - I've never had any before and it all looks a bit daunting, flower groups, root stocks, columnar etc... before I frazzle my brain trying to internet research the whole subject, can any kind experts out there warn me of any particular pitfalls? If I went to H0me8ase and chose one of each at random (say, Braeburn apple, Conference pear and Stella cherry) and planted them, would I get fruit, conditions permitting?

[TrixC]

Hi All,

I've got a bit of extra space on my plot as from this year, and I'm considering a few fruit trees (apple, pear, cherry) - I've never had any before and it all looks a bit daunting, flower groups, root stocks, columnar etc... before I frazzle my brain trying to internet research the whole subject, can any kind experts out there warn me of any particular pitfalls? If I went to H0me8ase and chose one of each at random (say, Braeburn apple, Conference pear and Stella cherry) and planted them, would I get fruit, conditions permitting?

If you don't have much experience growing fruit you would be better off buying from a specialist nursery who can advise you on the correct choice of varieties and rootstocks for your conditions as well as pollination, and will gerneally sell you better quality trees. I would not recommend Braeburn as a good apple for growing in Scotland, for example, it's a NZ bred variety that really needs warmer conditions. You also need to be aware of pollination requirements, the specific varieties you have mentioned are self-fertile, but many fruit trees are not. Blackmoor are a nursery I would personally recommend.

The other thing to think about is bare root versus container grown trees, there are arguments for and against both, but buying from Homebase you won't have a choice.

[chrisdb]

Maybe. The first problem is that only some 'self fertile' trees will fruit without a partner. Others need a compatible tree nearby to pollinate their flowers. You might be ok if someone else nearby has a compatible tree, but you might not. Often labels in places like homebase aren't very helpful, so best to google the variety you want beforw buying it.

The second thing is ease of pruning. Apples and pears are easier and more forgiving to prune than cherries and plums because they're less at risk of catching a serious disease through the cuts and also typically fruit more on old wood so you don't need to worry as much about where you cut.

The third thing is size. This is affected by the variety and the rootstock. Often labels in places like homebase are very misleading regarding final size, so don't trust them. Don't buy unless you know what rootstock the fruit tree is on. There are lots of charts on the internet, but here are a few common apple and pear rootstocks and the height they might get tp:

Apple, mm106 - 4+ metres
Apple, m26 - 3 metres
Pear, Quince A - 4+ metres
Pear, Quince C - 3 metres

Here's a table:

Fruit tree rootstocks and tree sizes

[TrixC]

Maybe. The first problem is that only some 'self fertile' trees will fruit without a partner. Others need a compatible tree nearby to pollinate their flowers. You might be ok if someone else nearby has a compatible tree, but you might not. Often labels in places like homebase aren't very helpful, so best to google the variety you want beforw buying it.

Many self-fertile trees will fruit more prolifically with a pollination partner, but surely the definition of self-fertile is "will produce fruit without a pollination partner."??

On rootstocks, this is an example of why it's best to get specialist advice; eventual tree heights are highly dependent on growing conditions and I think that's where an amateur can easily get unstuck. Some of the dwarfing rootstocks are really only viable on good soil. My allotment is on London clay and I was advised to only go for semi-vigorous rootstocks such as MM106/St Julien A, even if the desired result is a smaller tree.

[Guest]

What space/ time do you have? if you are limited for space then consider training the trees otherwise bung'em and let em go

How much fruit do you aim to get? if you just want to have a bit to put in the fruit bowl each year or the odd few jars of jams and jellies then you are fine with the bung 'em in approach. If you are after heavy crops or near perfect fruit you use more of your time and will need to think of thinning fruits and pest crontrols (netting etc)

How much do you have to spend? I have to admit I am a great fan of grafting and I was once very daunted by it, it is a case of jump in and you might be surprised. Ask around what people are growing - if you can pinch their prunings etc. however I realise its not for everyone, next option is bare root trees in autumn/winter when plants are dorment then your most expensive is pot grown.

[bario1]

Very helpful answers, thanks! It's already getting a little bit complicated though... the problem is I don't want to permanently use precious space on trees unless I know what i'm doing!

[WendyC]

How about making a few decisions about things you can be sure of? For example, the space available and any height restrictions on your site, soil type, location, types of apples you want (eating or cooking). Then I think I would phone a specialist nursery and ask for advice. You may pay more but ultimately be more successful. I think we are probably getting towards the end of the bare root season.

[Guest]

In the nicest possible way (as I can't think of the best way to phrase it) It is as complicated as you want it to be and it will stay complicated until you bite the bullet and just do it (IMO anyway )

If the space is precious then consider training them or using them as part of a long term permaculture plan where you can grow climbers up them and underplant/ ground cover.

[bario1]

Thanks for the replies!

Well, I've got room for a couple of trees about 3m height and spread max. The allotment rules state that no trees with a trunk of more than 4" are allowed, but i'm not sure how they'd regulate that. I'd probably go for a cherry and an eating apple as i believe pears are harder to grow up here.

As it's just two, cost isn't much of a problem, and i can certainly put plenty of time in with them because I'm at the plot most days.

The soil is heavy and slightly waterlogged, but I'm working on improving it with drainage channels and by adding more organic matter. The site gets plenty of afternoon sun in summer, but is prone to frosts in winter as it's low-lying and at the bottom of a hill.

I know i'm probably going to overthink this, I just don't want unproductive trees on my plot.

[DiggerSean]

I would personally go for 3 apples trees if you were to get only 3 trees (But I like apples....a lot and may be a little biased )

You have plenty of choice, 3 good garden varieties are Fiesta, Charles Ross and Greensleeves which would do well in your area. There are good Scottish apples too like James Grieve and Bloody Ploughman.

To get any chance of eating cherries then realistically you would need to grow one as a fan. This would mean you can net it easier than a free standing tree to have a better chance of keeping the birds off them.

For the widest choice go to a specialist fruit tree supplier and buy bare rooted trees. I can thoroughly recommend Keepers and Blackmoor Nurseries although the bare root season is coming to an end.

[bario1]

Thanks for your reply Sean.

The problem with apples is that i'm quite fussy (I can't stand mealy/powdery/thick skinned apples) - I think i'd have to try the apple before i bought the tree! Anyone tried James Grieve?

However, I've never had a sweet cherry that I didn't like, and Blackmoor have an end of bareroot season sale on right now.... I'm tempted to order a two year old bush Stella - I know i'd have to net it, but I can cross that bridge when I come to it!

[chrisdb]

Many self-fertile trees will fruit more prolifically with a pollination partner, but surely the definition of self-fertile is "will produce fruit without a pollination partner."??

Maybe I didn't word that well. I meant that only some trees, the self fertile ones, will fruit without a partner. Perhaps a couple of commas makes it clearer:

The first problem is that only some, 'self fertile', trees will fruit without a partner

[chrisdb]

Thanks for your reply Sean.

The problem with apples is that i'm quite fussy (I can't stand mealy/powdery/thick skinned apples) - I think i'd have to try the apple before i bought the tree! Anyone tried James Grieve?

Of the apples Sean suggested, Fiesta at least has quite a thick tough skin. A lot of the late / long keeping apples in particular do, it's part of what makes them keep well.

[Paulieb]

Most of the main online suppliers have offers on bareroot trees at the moment so now may be a good time to buy.

However, you mention you think you should try before you buy so I would do that if you can wait a year. I tried that for a year a while back by visiting as many local farm shops, markets between August and dec looking for locally grown apples. Early apples tend to only be available for 1-2 weeks so regular visits are worthwhile.

Even if you try a variety of apples that ultimately you don't buy, it still helped me to understand the lingo that many suppliers use to describe the flavours.

Then you can do the relevant research to pick which may be pest disease resistant and also spur bearers (avoid tip bearers for restricted forms) and also suitable for Edinburgh.

It's also worth avoid the common varieties as the rarer varieties tend to be less prone to pests simply because of their rareness.

[Philthy]

I'm still very much learning myself, and there can be A LOT to think about initially.
Paulie makes some great points. My advice would simply be to pay attention to what is being grown locally (where the varieties are known I mean), and the general health of those specimens. That way you know what is definitely possible in your own locale. Online nurseries and general retailers can tell you what is suitable according to your site spec and region, which will help draw up a list of possibles. But then I'd cross reference with your own notes before making a final decision. It's worth being thorough as there's a lot of variables to consider if you know your intended site is not perfect.

The soil is heavy and slightly waterlogged, but I'm working on improving it with drainage channels and by adding more organic matter. The site gets plenty of afternoon sun in summer, but is prone to frosts in winter as it's low-lying and at the bottom of a hill