Apple buying and misc apple advice.

[FB.]

......I plant MM111 or M25 at about 3m because most things only grow slowly in my soil due to the growing conditions, grass cover and no spraying.....

Quoting myself.....
Having said that, in this much-wetter-than-average year, my MM111, M25 or seedling-rootstock trees have really 'gone for it' due to an unusual abundance of soil moisture; even my neglected MM106 trees have normal size fruits for a change!
A number of my MM111/M25/seedling-rootstock trees have already added 3-4ft (1-1.2m) of growth in all directions and we're only halfway through the season. Normally they add about 1ft (0.3m) of growth each year.

[Shumba]

I plant MM111 or M25 at about 3m because most things only grow slowly in my soil due to the growing conditions, grass cover and no spraying.

Would MM111 be a better option if I get a little surface water? I do get a bit of a wet garden though haven’t been that inclined to investigate that far back corner after its been chucking it down! Something about wet waste height long grasses X3 There will certainly be some competition from grass but more so the oak.

[FB.]

Would MM111 be a better option if I get a little surface water? I do get a bit of a wet garden though haven’t been that inclined to investigate that far back corner after its been chucking it down! Something about wet waste height long grasses X3 There will certainly be some competition from grass but more so the oak.

I would be concerned that MM111 might get far too big, although a weak-growing scion variety might appreciate the extra boost from a strong rootstock.
If the oak's roots are all over the planting site then you might need something competitive. I suggest monitoring the planting site during this summer to see how wet or dry it gets so you can make a more informed choice in the autumn when the time comes to order your trees.
A little surface water in winter when trees are leafless isn't much of a problem. Saturated soil during the growing season can encourage root rots or may suffocate the roots.
If you have flooding problems, plant the tree(s) on a mound to keep the base of the trunk and where the main roots join above the water.

[Shumba]

Planting on a mound sounds logical if I can find the mud for it! X3 Would also give it its own uninvaded space to help break it in to. Honestly I haven’t a clue where the oak roots are, iv not encountered any though I haven’t dug around that area. A hawthorn is managing to grow next to the oak tho if that adds anything lol but who knows which came first! Perhaps M26 would do ok in a mound? M26 appears to be more easy to find.. Even though all the apples types I look at tend to not be available or out of stock! >:[

[Alison]

Even though all the apples types I look at tend to not be available or out of stock! >:[

I find you get the best selection in winter when they're dormant (and cheaper as bare rooted ). Out of interest where are you looking, I got most of mine from Blackmoor Nurseries, they're service was brilliant and they delivered excellent quality maidens, exactly as described.

[Shumba]

I find you get the best selection in winter when they're dormant (and cheaper as bare rooted ). Out of interest where are you looking, I got most of mine from Blackmoor Nurseries, they're service was brilliant and they delivered excellent quality maidens, exactly as described.

Thanks ill check them out to!
Currently scanning across orangepippintrees.co.uk love the sound of the lemon pippin tho have no idea how suitable it is. X3
Before that I was looking on victoriananursery.co.uk

I planned to go bare root, simply, it’s what I can afford .. just .. lol!

Over all I’m planning 2 apples, probably only 1 crab-apple now, black thorn and hazel nut to mix in with the elder and hawthorn I have as lil shoots. Possibly also I’ll be getting a rowan if I can fit it in. Keen on the English hedge row kinda thing without the hedge lol! So I’m sided to much older British varieties if I can that have stood the test of time.
Random side note, I ended up with a few birch trees from seed I have no place for!! X3

[FB.]

Most hazels, hawthorns, elders and rowans are at least a match for the heavyweight M25 apple rootstock.

[Shumba]

Most hazels, hawthorns, elders and rowans are at least a match for the heavyweight M25 apple rootstock.

I planned them ones to be a little smaller than 'tree', more bush or loosely spaced hedge lol Tho I think rowan don’t do small

So I suppose I should ask what sort of root stock is suitable for those as well, though the elderberry is a potluck from random cutting and the hawthorn I literally pulled up from the other side of the garden lol

My plans keep changing tho, might have the crab-apple in that bushy selection now, it leaves more room for the other apple trees. +cheaper for buying less.

.. why can’t this be as simple as blackberries, I neglected them and this years crop looks set to be stupendously huge lol!

[FB.]

Hazels are grown on their own roots, otherwise you'll quickly end up cultivating the rootstock after coppicing or due to suckering.
Therefore hazels have no size control other than choosing varieties which naturally grow more slowly.
Cosford is a very strong grower. Butler is a strong grower. Gunslebert and Kent are medium growers. Gustav Zeller is fairly weak.
Each variety has its own flavour, nut shape/size and cropping.

[Shumba]

Hazels are grown on their own roots, otherwise you'll quickly end up cultivating the rootstock after coppicing or due to suckering.
Therefore hazels have no size control other than choosing varieties which naturally grow more slowly.
Cosford is a very strong grower. Butler is a strong grower. Gunslebert and Kent are medium growers. Gustav Zeller is fairly weak.
Each variety has its own flavour, nut shape/size and cropping.

I guess I better get a slower one then lol, Kent one probably perhaps with a Zeller or Gunzlebert for pollination.

Back to apples tho.. I really like the older English types! Also, I’ve found a shop (keepers-nursery) with Lemon Pippins on M26 root stock for sale. Would a Malus Harry Baker crab apple be good to pollinate it? The pippin is self-sterile so it’s important I get a good pollinator!
That would just leave me to ponder on the 3rd tree, possibly James Grieve though it’s apparently susceptible to scab and fireblight, I wonder if that would increase the chance of spread to the other trees if It did get it especially as damp is a slight concern. But I like the fact it can be used for juice and possibly cider if I get adventurous lol! I also considered Malus Roberts Red crab apple as a 3rd tree tho it’s not an off the tree eater, but its ok for juice and cider, so I don’t see why no noms. Perhaps the flesh is bitter? Either way it’s not available as a bare root which is annoying and they are saying ‘semi-vigorous rootstock’, not sure how that compares to M26 or why the site changed the format for crabs!

The Roberts Red would be on its own, flowering group 2 I think. The other two are 4’s. James is a 3 though probably more helpful than a 2.

So thoughts? Or is Lemon Pippin a terrible starting choice?

[yummersetter]

James Grieve is a very good pollinator, one of my key trees; tends towards being biennial and I notice a difference in surrounding trees' crops in the lesser year. Lovely for apple juice. Is there a reason for crab apples? I consider mine a pollinating ornamental, the only edible use ( unless you're a starling) is making jelly, and the James Grieve would be better and more productive for that. Twenty apples would do rather than a hundred crabs. For your choice of apple varieties I'd suggest you think about locally grown apples that you've tasted and loved, also early / mid season fruits that you can't buy because they have short shelf life or are too fragile to transport, or later dessert and/or cooking apples that can be stored. Top fruit trees are long term projects, several years till they fruit and they'll carry on for up to a century, so its more like a marriage than a quick fling, needs deliberation and taste testing to choose well.

[Shumba]

James Grieve is a very good pollinator, one of my key trees; tends towards being biennial and I notice a difference in surrounding trees' crops in the lesser year. Lovely for apple juice. Is there a reason for crab apples? I consider mine a pollinating ornamental, the only edible use ( unless you're a starling) is making jelly, and the James Grieve would be better and more productive for that. Twenty apples would do rather than a hundred crabs. For your choice of apple varieties I'd suggest you think about locally grown apples that you've tasted and loved, also early / mid season fruits that you can't buy because they have short shelf life or are too fragile to transport, or later dessert and/or cooking apples that can be stored. Top fruit trees are long term projects, several years till they fruit and they'll carry on for up to a century, so its more like a marriage than a quick fling, needs deliberation and taste testing to choose well.

I’m a starling …ok I’m not, but yeah, jam and pollinating the Lemon Pippin is the goal of the Harry Baker. The second crab ‘Roberts Red’, is noted for being good for juice and cider as well as having freakishly plumb looking apples. Hopefully I’ll get enough apples from the Lemon Pippin for eating in this case, it is a heavy cropper apparently not that I have any idea what that means in terms of numbers lol. But needs a pollinator :P
Biennial would bug me I think, so more likely siding with 2 crabs now unless something better comes along.
I was always going to have 1 crab apple regardless and I heard they are very good pollinators, thus was hoping someone could confirm that this combo would work as apparently some don’t.