Hedge row fruits advice!

[Shumba]

Adding to the endless garden plan... I have more questions! So many I feel bad for asking.. I’m probably taking on to much at once but I love it lol!
http://i.imgur.com/D2nwtkw.jpg (360 degree image, the oak tree B is about north and A south. Derby UK with clay soil.)

So basically I’m planning blackthorn and elderberry as a ‘loose’ hedge and not to tall. I’m not aiming to make it look like a hedge and I want to be able to get around the back side of it for harvesting. I then plan some hawthorns, and finally some kind of hazel nut (Cobnut??) – All things that make nice UK hedge rows, dotted around the place in a wonderful mess!

The issue I’m having is I keep finding spacing guides for hedges, not single bush/tree. So for the blackthorn, I’d like to know a good spacing that isn’t ‘to close’ so I get a better harvest while maintaining a ‘loose’ visual barrier. Same for the elder. Though I have some idea on that. I also need to know how far from the fence to place them so I can still get around the back to pick fruit.

The hawthorn will be standalone or a possibly pair, not a clue how big hawthorn gets or how fast it gets there. It’s currently about as big as my finger, ‘probably’ from seed, I didn’t encounter any big roots this time digging it up. So yeah anything about hawthorn would be good, spacing, size, ect..

And lastly my sister has insisted I add some kind of hazel nut, these I think are wind pollinated? So ill likely have two closer together. Basically need to know how much they spread out so I can get past!

And finally for all, 4.. How long till I can expect a crop? =D
Blackthorn and the nuts will be from a shop, the elderberry I have this years cuttings with some roots on already and the hawthorn I have dug up and potted what iv found on the floor this year for planting.

Many thanks! =)

[Baldy]

Can't help with most of your post, but i planted blackthorn last winter and won't be expecting much in terms of sloe berries for 3 or 4 years.

[veggiechicken]

Blackthorn and hawthorn are seriously thorny. Hawthorn grows quite quickly - mine are trees, 20-30'.
Some hawthorn berries are tastier than others - and you wont know what you have unless you've grown it from a berry that you've tasted.

Blackthorn spreads by suckering so you need to keep an eye on it.

Hazel also grows quickly, the squirrels plant them here but it would be several years before they have nuts (that's the hazels, not the squirrels!).

What about dog roses for rosehips or rowan for the berries?

[Shumba]

Haha thanks all, yeah lets grow squirrels to! X3

Gota WOW .. never seen a hawthorn that big!

Didn’t know that about blackthorn! .. tho makes sense since I think there related to plumbs.. I guess I’ll let the lawnmower handle it X3

I did consider rowan! Not sure if I’m running out of tree space tho.. If I can find one for cheap perhaps.
I considered replacing the cherry trees since I got about 5 cherries from them last year and one grows at 45 degrees. Or thin them out and try to grow between. Or perhaps a rowan would grow ok under the oak? There is also another huge sized tree reasonably hidden in that pic so there may be too much competition. They all need some love!
Also worth mentioning I can’t plant noms to close to the oak tree as the ground is contaminated on the other side of the wall.

Now then, rosehips. To many earwigs.. to many bad memories.. to much earwig jam!

[Nicos]

Just like to add that you don't need two hazel trees- ours stands alone and crops well.
You might like to plant a cobnut as well as a hazelnut...very similar, but slightly different?

You say contaminated ground....what with?

[Shumba]

You might like to plant a cobnut as well as a hazelnut...very similar, but slightly different?

Oh nuts! I thought they were the same thing lol! I really have no clue with them \o.o/

The contaminant is I think engine oil, some idiot had been piling oil cans around the trees for years before I moved in. I’d like to clear it up but it’s not on my land. That’s where the hawthorns came from, I’m moving the seedlings away from the area.

[yummersetter]

Blackthorn is nasty. I have it as mature bushes in my orchard hedge and they have produced hundreds of suckers up to five metres from the parents. Except when they're very tiny, they are too tough to be mown out but have to be dug out with difficulty and a sharp spade. The thorns are vicious and sloes have limited use. I'd forage them and leave the plants to others a long way away. Unless you want to discourage raiders.

[Shumba]

Blackthorn is nasty. I have it as mature bushes in my orchard hedge and they have produced hundreds of suckers up to five metres from the parents. Except when they're very tiny, they are too tough to be mown out but have to be dug out with difficulty and a sharp spade. The thorns are vicious and sloes have limited use. I'd forage them and leave the plants to others a long way away. Unless you want to discourage raiders.

That’s why I can afford them X3 Do you think planting it in a sunken ring of metal or plastic might help control them? Not sure how deep id go or what I’d use tho.

[BUFFS]

If you plant them quite close they will sort themselves out, and I would underplant them with some goosegogs or possibly blackcurrant,I have seen it done with the goosegogs and it works well, you won't get a massive crop but acceptable,and all you do is pick and trim the odd stray branch...go for it, mix them up and enjoy...

[Scarlet]

That’s why I can afford them X3 Do you think planting it in a sunken ring of metal or plastic might help control them? Not sure how deep id go or what I’d use tho.

Sloes are a worthless crop imo. If you want a hedge of 30 foot tall you'l get a crop but if you want a hedge kept under control- seriously don't bother! Hawthorn also sucker everywhere,one of my trees top 30ft! I have a few hazelnut bushes too Again mine are 15ft wide each at least....squirrels love them. elderberries are very much the same. You will need a very big garden to grow these. How big is your plot?

[yummersetter]

Have you looked at Martin Crawford's Agroforestry books? There are many more interesting and productive shrubs you could be considering before you plant. I don't know if root restricting blackthorn will work because everyone I know just wants to eliminate it not control it.

[Scarlet]

Have you looked at Martin Crawford's Agroforestry books?

No, ive never heard of it! I'm off for a little look sounds very interesting.

[Shumba]

@ Buffs
Oooo blackcurrants! Stop adding to my shopping list lol!
Never been a fan of gogs :/ perhaps cos my dad always grew them in shade and they tasted like sipping acid lolz! I think blackcurrants would be a nice tho.

@ Scarlet
Well I’m not after bag loads of sloes, just enough to add to jam and such really.
The plot I have for the loose hedge is about 12m along a fence, the fence is to the south - tho I think next door may make it taller soon, I can’t see what was wrong with the wire mesh fence it let the light in! X3
As for depth around a fence panel? 2m perhaps? Tho now a fence might be going up im not sure if ill need to get it back a little more !! It all depends how things grow I’ll have to jiggle bits about some I guess. Could be more than 2m in places it’s a bit of a guess.

[veggiechicken]

Have you ever made jam from sloes??????

[Guest]

What is your reason for wanting this hedge? (apart from you have a few seedling/cuttings)