Winter pruning, Apple and Pear

[lmayhow]

Hello

Hoping for a little advice we have 3 Apple and 2 Pear trees planted by previous owner about 4 years old now I believe. I know they are Minarette trees apples are Discovery and Scrumptious and 3rd I am unsure. Pear again Minarette which are Conference and Invincible.

I have read through 'The Fruit Tree Handbook' by Ben Pike and brought new secateurs and pruning saw, I understand most of what am reading except how long the trunk should be before the first branch. I am sure that I have read most start with branches around 60-90cm except mine are as low as 30cm on all trees and its a lots of branches. Before I kill the trees from over pruning am I right in thinking to remove all below 60cm or should I leave tree down low and concentrate on higher branches? I also understand not to remove too much so maybe if I did need to remove below 60cm should I attempt this over a couple of years and take a couple off at a time.

Hoping that long message has made sense dyslexic and hubby is away so he cant check over my writing for me.

Thank you

[BUFFS]

I just trim off 50% of last years growth, down to just above a bud about now, and where you trim is governed by what shape you want the tree to be, as I understand it you must never cut off more than 30% as this would really weaken the tree. no doubt an experienced "trimmer" will put us both right on the do's and dont's, it will shape how well the trees develop for years..

[chrisdb]

I don't think it harms the trees to branch that low. I've found personally that aiming to duplicate the ideal from the books isn't helpful - don't hack large segments from a healthy fruiting tree just because you think you should. The trees are only 4 years old and probably don't need a complete renovation. Apple trees will normally fruit well even without textbook perfect pruning, so make sure you have a specific reason why something has to go before cutting bits off.

Ask yourself:

1. Do the low branches make it difficult for you to get access? Are they in the way in general?
2. Is the tree too dense - you get better quality fruit if light can get to all fruit, including the ones in the middle, and branches should be spaced enough that they're not at risk of rubbing against each other

If the answers are yes then thin, and probably the very low branches are a good target. You'll have to judge since you're the one with the tree in front of you. If you plan to remove a lot of the tree then do it over a couple of years.

Remember:

1. Regulated pruning - remove dead, diseased and crossing branches
2. Remove very upright growth from branches - this is no good for fruit
3. Prune more gently to buds pointing outwards in the direction you want the tree to grow for branches that are going up, across or generally in an unhelpful direction. This will save the tree energy compared to hacking off larger bits of bad growth in a few years time. Counterintuitively, prune harder for more vigorous regrowth, and more gently for weaker regrowth.

[chrisdb]

A final question: how upright are the low branches?

I ask because I have a Fiesta apple tree which has a straggly, weeping habit. It grows out initially quite vigorously, almost horizontally, but the wood is quite weak and the weight of the branches and fruit then bends the branches downwards below horizontal. Fighting this odd growth habit is a losing battle, at least for me, since the tree simply won't produce solid growth at ~45 degrees up no matter what I do. So I focus my efforts on decongesting the tree (stopping the drooping branches getting tangled and rubbing against each other), and stopping branches hitting the ground underneath the tree.

The point is that I think branches shouldn't be at risk of touching the ground.

[lmayhow]

Thank you both for replys....

I will hold off on lower branches not drooping, they are horizontal, slightly diagonally up. The new growth at the top is extremely vertical though so will have a prune up there.... along with other mentioned areas.

The reason I have read so much for this winter prune is because one tree gave absolutely no apples another had black spots on leaves and fruit. Then one pear only gave one fruit and the other had pear rust (orange spots of leaves) we removed the orange spot leaves and placed in a bag in the land waste bin...

I was worried that I didnt do a very good prune last winter...

Thank you again for advice!!!!!!!

[chrisdb]

Thank you both for replys....

I will hold off on lower branches not drooping, they are horizontal, slightly diagonally up. The new growth at the top is extremely vertical though so will have a prune up there.... along with other mentioned areas.

The reason I have read so much for this winter prune is because one tree gave absolutely no apples another had black spots on leaves and fruit. Then one pear only gave one fruit and the other had pear rust (orange spots of leaves) we removed the orange spot leaves and placed in a bag in the land waste bin...

I was worried that I didnt do a very good prune last winter...

Thank you again for advice!!!!!!!

I think it's unlikely that underpruning would cause a long-term lack of flowering/fruiting. There are plenty of people whose chosing pruning method is to plant and forget, i.e. no pruning whatsoever. Too much indescriminate hard pruning is far more likely to cause low/no yields.

Also, your trees are still young - do you know what rootstock they're on? For semi-vigorous rootstocks like mm106, which is most likely for trees from the supermarket/garden centre, a 3 - 4 year wait is what the books will suggest. My parents have had some m26 trees that haven't yielded much in 5 or 6 years, although that might be due to their dislike of the heavy clay the trees are planted in.

The black spots are probably scab if they affected both leaves and fruit. It's a common disease of apples. I don't think bad pruning affects the chances of the tree getting scab.

2016 was terrible for pears where I was. The very late cold blast we had in spring after the mild winter destroyed most of the blossom on my young pear and plum trees. Did the trees flower but then not fruit?

[lmayhow]

Yes everything did flower this year, shame your pears were also difficult this year cant remember the weather when they were blooming must take note this year. Due to the generic care page for fruit trees in the shed I am guessing that they may be M9 or M26 due to close spacing and suggested end height of 1.7-2.5m.

Thank you again for all the replies, defiantly going to just regular prune take more mental notes re weather and see how they go this year, thank you thank you....

[yummersetter]

Have you looked at the Ken Muir website? They sell Minarette trees and have an online pruning leaflet that says that they should be summer pruned. http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/image/data/...ar%20Trees.pdf