Espalier Apple Training - Should I remove side shoot?

[MRKJ]

Hello

I have been given a Pitmarston Pineapple sparsely feathered maiden tree that I would like to espalier train. It is on M26 root stock which I think is fine as I only want 2-3 tiers.

There is a side shoot at the level I would like to create the first tier but I am not sure whether to prune below and remove it, or above and use it as part of the first tier.



Any advice appreciated.

Thanks Mark

[Scarlet]

I'm rubbish at tree pruning..so no help. FB or someone with a little knowledge should be around soon. Norfolkgrey?

Welcome to the vine mRKJ

[MRKJ]

Thank you

[Guest]

Hi and welcome to the vine

When you say there is a shoot at the level you want I am guessing you mean the lonely one at the bottom. In an ideal world you would cut below because the aim would be to give you strong shoots either side to train but... (yes, always a but) that would be roughly 2/3 of the tree gone (which is wasted energy) which means a higher chance of the tree dying. As a rule of thumb you should not remove more than 1/3.

So option 2 cut higher up (buds above the branch you want) and have a higher tier. If you cut just above the branch you will encourage uneven strength branches.

Option 3 is the one I would do (because I am a wuss) is notching. Which is a cut just above a bud which is meant to promote buds exactly where you want them. This also depends where you want the other tiers as I personally would keep the top and remove the leader, but that is just me.

Hopefully FB will pop in and give more options (braver ones )

[Lardman]

Nice gift - It looks considerably healthier than my home grafted double cordon on mm106

Ideally you want the first tier to be around 18" it keeps the fruit off the floor and stops "things" eating them, the top branches look well above that and they look to be at a very tight angle. The lower branch looks about right but it's difficult to say without some form of scale.

Id prefer to get the right shape than save a year and end up with a tree I'd not be happy with. If it were mine I'd pull the lower branch down to the horizontal, and cut at the bud above the label or the next one facing you (3rd?). This should give you a leader facing you to train vertically and the bud below or just above the label on the left should give you a branch, I'd prefer the lower as it would look more balance.

You could try notching those buds but I don't like the cluster of top branches anyway, they look to be all on the right hand side.

[Jungle Jane]

This ken muir links got some good advice about espalier training & pruning,it doesn't look like the main leader has ever been cut in the photo,when you do it encourages side shoot growth I think?~

"Where a feathered maiden is used, if there are two suitably placed side shoots one on each side at around 37-45cm (15-18in) from the ground, these can be used to form the first tier and tied horizontally. The leader should be pruned to three good buds at 37- 45cm (15-18in) above this tier. All other side shoots should be shortened to about three buds."
http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/image/data/...ar%20Trees.pdf

[MRKJ]

Hi

Thanks all for your advice.

Just to confirm that it is the lower branch (which is about 16 inches high) that is at the height I would like the first tier. The tree is about 4 foot high in total at the minute so cutting below the lower branch would indeed be about 2/3 of it gone.

I'm not a fan of the top branches either (they are all on the right), and from everything I've read it seems that developing one tier at a time is the best way to go, I'd rather get it done right than fast too.

So I think I'm either going the brave option and removing everything, or cutting 3 buds above the lower branch and notching the bud on the other side of the lower branch to try and promote it's mate there.

We're forecast some frosty weather the next few days so I think I'm better off waiting for that to pass before I make the cut anyway?

Thanks again
Mark

[Guest]

^^^If you are being brave you could get some rootstocks and graft what you lob off as back up (careful it is addictive)

Don't forget to let us know how it goes. Fingers crossed for you.

[MRKJ]

That's a good idea

[MRKJ]

Does anyone have any recommendations for root stock retailers, either online or in the Oxford area?

Thanks

[Guest]

Blackmoor Nurseries Blackmoor Nurseries or
GB Online Rootstock - gb-online.co.uk

[Lardman]

Does anyone have any recommendations for root stock retailers

You could wait until the supermarkets get their trees in and graft onto those (likely to be m9 or m26). That would give you another variety too...

[MRKJ]

You could wait until the supermarkets get their trees in and graft onto those (likely to be m9 or m26). That would give you another variety too...

I saw some small Golden Delicious trees in Tesco yesterday actually. I'll have a look when I go back. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of room but I'm thinking we might be able to squeeze in another tree in a container.

[Lardman]

Unfortunately we don't have a lot of room but I'm thinking we might be able to squeeze in another tree in a container.

Family tree, vertical cordon, minarette style ... we don't let a little thing like no space stand in the way.

[MRKJ]

An update

No pruning so far as I've booked myself on a fruit tree pruning workshop at Waterperry Gardens in Oxfordshire next weekend. In preparation however I have erected my training wires along the fence and staked that lower side shoot at 45 degrees just in case I decide to keep it. So next weekend the big decision will be made...!