Grafting help

[maverick451]

Looking for a bit of grafting advice

I have some m27 rootstocks than are quite thick, think marker pen thickness.

The scions I have are probably about 1/2 as thick

What type of graft should I use? Ive read up on cleft graft but that seems to be used where there is a very big difference?

[Lardman]

It's about as good as you're going to get.

If you have 2 bits of equal thickness scion a double cleft will balance things out and you can always cut one off if they both take. Don't forget you're lining up green to green, so the scion will be over to 1 side of the rootstock. Be careful when you wrap a single cleft or unequal double that you're not opening the slit with pressure on the thick side.

I did a couple onto thicker (older) rootstocks last year as a test, most took. They're not the prettiest things but alive none the less. If I get chance I'll grab a picture or 2 tomorrow so you can lean from my mistakes.

[Guest]

The only thing to add to what Lardman has said is grab a load of twigs and practise a few times. Grafting would be so easy if you had three hands

[maverick451]

It's about as good as you're going to get.

If you have 2 bits of equal thickness scion a double cleft will balance things out and you can always cut one off if they both take. Don't forget you're lining up green to green, so the scion will be over to 1 side of the rootstock. Be careful when you wrap a single cleft or unequal double that you're not opening the slit with pressure on the thick side.

I did a couple onto thicker (older) rootstocks last year as a test, most took. They're not the prettiest things but alive none the less. If I get chance I'll grab a picture or 2 tomorrow so you can lean from my mistakes.

Thanks I like the idea of 2 into one rootstock, stupidly I never though of that!

[maverick451]

The only thing to add to what Lardman has said is grab a load of twigs and practise a few times. Grafting would be so easy if you had three hands

Ha

I was grafting earlier and I had to keep asking a friend to help, I couldnt hold and tape at the same time!

[Lardman]

Grafting would be so easy if you had three hands

So True !

I was grafting earlier and I had to keep asking a friend to help, I couldnt hold and tape at the same time

Were you using the tool you bought, it makes a rather short wedge. I tried to do some plums a few days ago using mine (I don't have much luck grafting plums) and for the life of me it wouldn't stay in place whilst I taped, I cut the scion down to 2" and it was a little easier.

If you do a saddle graft by hand with a knife you can make the wedge longer; this allows you to pinch the bottom and the tape with a thumb and finger, then wrap the other end of the graft. Once you have a few turns you can move up and crank up the pressure. Keep at it, you'll get the hang of it.

[maverick451]

So True !



Were you using the tool you bought, it makes a rather short wedge. I tried to do some plums a few days ago using mine (I don't have much luck grafting plums) and for the life of me it wouldn't stay in place whilst I taped, I cut the scion down to 2" and it was a little easier.

If you do a saddle graft by hand with a knife you can make the wedge longer; this allows you to pinch the bottom and the tape with a thumb and finger, then wrap the other end of the graft. Once you have a few turns you can move up and crank up the pressure. Keep at it, you'll get the hang of it.

Yeah I did use the tool and it was quite windy at the allotment so the first one fell out about 3 times

I did get a bit better as I went on, I bought the grafting tape but actually found electrical tape was better to hold it together and then I bound it use grafting tape and then sealed it up up using graftign sealant.

Im just looking at knifes right now, I dont know which one to get though, Ive seen opinel number 6 recommended but I can only find the 8.

[Guest]

^^^I use a scapel (swann mortan) knife and secateurs. Just saying.

[Lardman]

Im just looking at knifes right now, I dont know which one to get though, Ive seen opinel number 6 recommended but I can only find the 8.

I have a number 6 - Mine came from amazon but it doesn't look like they're doing them anymore They're nice but you have to keep them sharp and I couldn't get the hang of it and a blunt knife is useless. I find a snap off craft knife (I think it was 79p) just as useful and the blades are cheap as chips when they go dull, it doesn't look as flash though.

[Lardman]

Here are a few of the cleft grafts from last year, you can see they're not pretty, but they were twigs into 2 year old MM106's and I just wanted to keep things alive.

Double cleft on Queen Cox, both took but I snipped the left hand side back.


Single cleft on Orleans Reinette, this was probably the biggest of the scions.


Double cleft on Pitmaston Pineapple, these were very thin ! only the left took and it's a very poor graft but it will provide grafting material for next year.



As comparison a Pitmaston Pineapple done with the grafting tool onto a 1 year old MM106 of comparable thickness, done at the same time from the same scion source.



Hopefully that'll give you an idea of how badly you can do a graft and still get away with it.

[Guest]

Just to confuse you a bit more. I do my doubles differently to Lardman. I actually cut the rootstock twice. I also find it makes the scions a bit more secure when it comes to taping them. As a side note I don't think any of my scions and rootstocks have ever matched



These ones still have both as I want to do a Belgian lattice fence. However, I need to keep an eye on one as last years growth was uneven.



Here is a single graft that was done two years ago and they have grown together fine despite the mismatch size at the start. (The photo is misleading - it is a cleft graft)



Edit: All apples on M27 rootstock

[Lardman]

Edit: All apples on M27 rootstock

You can't leave us hanging like that ! What apples - anything interesting ?

[Guest]

You can't leave us hanging like that ! What apples - anything interesting ?

Trust you. I don't know which the top four were now as some of the odds were given to a neighbour yesterday. However, last year I grafted the following:-

Egremont Russett
Scotts Golden Russett
Catshead
Crispin
Sunrise
Cox
Queen Cox
Caroline
An unknown cox type

Red Sentinel Crab apple and some pears (but the pics are all apples)

The last pic of the graft year before last is a Court Pendu Plat.

[maverick451]

Thanks for the pics guys, very impressive

Ill upload some pics in a month or two to show you if any take!

[BUFFS]

I use the ptfe tape, that's the thin stuff plumbers use on joints, works a treat and really stretches tight to seal the graft, and it doesn't cost much and available everywhere. I first used it as I had no grafting tape and it seemed to fit the bill as to what was required, so I am still happy using it, I grafted some russet cuttings onto the useless braeburn last year very successfully..