Spacings for planting Grape Vines

[fishpond]

A well known and respected site has published this guide but a small part of it confuses me
It starts by saying vines should be 27"-30" apart when planted for a single Guyot system

and ends with this!
Year one
In the growing season

Train one strong shoot vertically up a cane, pinching out or rubbing off any other shoots
Pinch back any side shoots from this main shoot to one leaf
In December

Cut the main stem back to leave two strong buds around 40cm (16in) from ground level (i.e. at the level of the lowest wire) for a single Guyot and three strong buds for a double Guyot
Year two
In the growing season

Train the two or three shoots growing from the selected buds up the cane
Pinch back any side shoots back to one leaf
In December

For a double Guyot, tie down one shoot to the left and one to the right along the lowest wire
For a single Guyot, tie down one single shoot to the left or right
Cut the shoots back to 60-90cm (2-3ft)???
Cut the remaining central shoot back to two or three strong buds (two for a single Guyot, three for a double Guyot)

It appears that you plant the vines at up to 30" spacings, then you have an overlap of up to 6" from the single rod.
Any one have an answer???(stick with Radishes)
Note:- these will be grown for desert, not wine.

[Guest]

I am sure that is just goobledegook, I will try and make sense of it in the morning. I picked someones brain a while ago about training and they linked the following u toob vid which made it a lot easier to understand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6RLNKivpu8 . Sunnybanks also do a growing guide with pics as well which helps http://www.sunnybankvines.co.uk/medi...2bffffe41e.pdf

Edit: Ok I have read it and it is still not easy to follow. What makes it worse is the well known site done a well known book. Nevermind. Is there a reason why you only want single guyot? and are your plants grafted? Vines have a lot to give and IMO I think single guyot is very limited for a hobby grower. If it is just to get more varieties then think about mixing the forms or setting the heights at different levels for the guyot system (alternate high -low). But the 2-3ft is a fair guide but I would use it as a guide.

[ecudc]

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=285

They suggest 75cm for single spacing and then lay only one down cutting back to 60 cm. for a double the spacing is much wider and you lay 2 arms down either side... I think.

[fishpond]

Now replanted at 5 foot spacing within a 10 foot wired support, allowing double rods to be grown at 2.5 feet length, each side of the vine.
I was a little concerned about lifting & replanting the vines as the buds were well developed, but surprisingly, even though the roots were looking really good they have not (as yet) put on any new growth.
Hopefully a good result for future grape harvests.

P.S I haven't got a clue what I am talking about either.

[Deltawhiskey]

One of the issues is limiting the number of bunches so that they will all ripen. This is easier when the fruiting rods are short and the bunches are closer to the trunk. It is also important that the vines are relatively closely spaced outside in the higher latitudes of the northern hemisphere for both ripening and to enable root competition so that the roots have to dig deep. My vines are planted at 700 mm and will be single guyot. The only issues against close plantings are that the soil may be too fertile and create too much leafy growth and the cost of the vines.

David

[fishpond]

David
Where did you get your 700mm spacings from?

P.S Did you get any broad beans?

[Jungle Jane]

I went past the vineyard near me the other day,theirs look like little 3 ft stubs & look fairly close together,sorry that doesn't help but the first post you did kind of made sense. When the vines cross over they all get cut back again after fruiting?

[the big lebowski]

phew im glad im not the only one who is completly confused about grapvines ! talking to my mate up the plot and he said only prune them in the winter as they can bleed out and dont try and train the green shoots as the are v fragile and will break as for spacing i really dont know what to say,i have posts with 4 horizontal wires on spaced about 4 ft apart and was going to put 1 vine inbetween each post ,cheers

p.s. shall we start a club ? we could call it the no idea club or the not even a hunch bunch ,cheers

[Welsh76]

When the vines cross over they all get cut back again after fruiting?

You only cut them back when they're dormant (just after Christmas) and you cut each cane right back to two buds to allow next years renewal spurs to grow, you only want 1 of the renewal spurs to fully grow but you allow 2 to grow and allow the best one to grow on pruning the other one early on (so no energy is wasted on it).

I use the 4-arm Kniffin method but the pruning process is the same for all methods (grapes only grow on 1 year old canes)

[Jay-ell]

I divided my fence into 3 bits and put a vine in the middle of each - this means each plant has 8' width which may turn out to be too wide (but would leave the option of adding 2 more vines later for 4' spacing). As the fence is 8' tall I'll be attempting to train them in a Scott Henry layout.

I had thought of Smart Dyson, but decided if I am going to select a training method named after a vacuum cleaner, I want that cleaner to be smiling.

[fishpond]

I divided my fence into 3 bits and put a vine in the middle of each - this means each plant has 8' width which may turn out to be too wide (but would leave the option of adding 2 more vines later for 4' spacing). As the fence is 8' tall I'll be attempting to train them in a Scott Henry layout.

I had thought of Smart Dyson, but decided if I am going to select a training method named after a vacuum cleaner, I want that cleaner to be smiling.

Sorry, I thought you were having a Giraffe, your not.

[Deltawhiskey]

700mm spacing was based on the width of my garden. However, the close spacing is to make sure that the bunches all ripen. My broad beans are about 30 mm. How are your vines?

David

[fishpond]

Looking good and budding nicely.
It will be interesting in 3, 4 and 10 years to compare results.

[Jay-ell]

Mine have burst and look as if I'll get a few canes on each to select the trunks from. There's still a few unburst buds just incase the frost nips them off as well.

Can't wait till a couple of years down the line and the framework is formed.