Revitalising fruit bed

[katkatkat]

I was pretty pleased when I got my new allotment as it had a whole strip the length of the plot of summer fruiting raspberries and a huge redcurrant bush.

However, having talked to the old guy's son-in-law it seems the raspberries are really old and ideally need replaced. They'd only really kept them in as a wind break. They're heavily cropping (2kg in one picking!) but all look a bit powdery and pale so I've turned them in to jam.

Because the strip was a wind break, they've left in 3 self-seeded Hawthorns, a sycamore that has obviously just been cut back each year as the base is quite thick and privet.

So now I'm unsure of how to proceed with the section once the raspberries are done.

How would I even go about removing small trees (there's paving slabs down one side of them) and what's the best way to replace raspberries, can you just dig them out and put new ones in?

I have another section at the back that I could put new raspberries in and had been wondering about putting espaliered (sp?) or fan trained fruit trees in instead to help with the wind issue but don't know the first thing about how to choose them, what root stock I'd need etc

Any suggestions?

[Kirk]

Trees will be a case of attempt to dig them up and if impossible and you want rid of them then cut to the ground and treat the stump with something. There is stuff called stump killer around but I guess this is just glyphosphate in strong and undiluted form

That decision is yours. Do you want to keep any as a windbreak ?

The raspberries: The problem is often that they get a virus, this reduces the cropping of the plants and eventually they are not viable. However the virus will remain in the soil for a number of years. So replanting the same place can simply mean new ones are planted in an area that has a high presence of this virus.

Some varieties may be resistant/immune, I recall reading of this quite a few years ago and I would half suspect that work has been done on developing better varieties.

You could be better off putting the new raspberries in the alternative area, but not sure by how great a degree as I doubt that when walking over the plot anyone has ever took any precautiuons about spready any potentially contaminated soil around.

Fruit trees, the easiest are apples, the rootstocks are available for small trees, try an M9 rootstock for something about 6 foot tall, the M26 produces something about 2 ft taller. Training into whatever form is for you.

Another but more costly way is the minnarette fruit trees from Ken Muir. Could easily make a windbreak but they are not cheap.

Do they need to be fruit trees? Just thinking that something compact that flowers a lot can be used to attract bees and so pollinate the main crop. Worth looking around at garden to get ideas for this, and if you re good get a few cuttings and try to root them.

If you go for apples then ask around for suitable ones for Scotland as I would expect some varieties are not well suited.

[nickdub]

I'd agree with the advice already given by Kirk - though the tree root killer can be different, just check on the pack - it works well if the cut tree was growing you just pack some chemicals on the stump and tape a plastic bag over the top.

If the ground hasn't been worked for a while try to get some horse or cow manure to dig in in the Autumn.

Not so good idea planting anything in the exact same place as it has been growing before - as alternatives to raspberries you could look at Loganberries or Tayberries - or try some other soft fruit.

If anything is very weedy and you are busy, get some old cardboard boxes, carpet or whatever - flatten it down over the area and weigh some stones on top - be easier to dig later.

[Greenleaves]

Pure hard graft I am affraid but rewarding

[katkatkat]

Thanks for the advice. Will need to do some thinking about how to proceed with the area. Seems they're also infested with some form of wee maggoty thing which I assume would attack any other berry type plants I might replace the rasps with too (not that I care too much, I always tell vegans that my jam/wine will contain bugs, but it's slightly off putting for using none processed fruit in things)

[chrisdb]

Why not put in some supports and wires and then espalier train more vigorous apples on m26 or mm106 against the wires? Pears can also be espalier trained without too much difficulty. Cordons are another option. The advantage of using more vigorous rootstocks in a restricted forms is they're more drought tolerant and able to look after themselves, the disadvantage is more pruning.

[nickdub]

Thanks for the advice. Will need to do some thinking about how to proceed with the area. Seems they're also infested with some form of wee maggoty thing which I assume would attack any other berry type plants I might replace the rasps with too (not that I care too much, I always tell vegans that my jam/wine will contain bugs, but it's slightly off putting for using none processed fruit in things)

If the "maggoty things " are re the raspberries you'd almost certainly be safe growing most other types of soft fruit - even loganberries would probably be OK, certainly currants, gooseberries etc would be fine.

Growing tree fruit instead like apples probably depends on how long you keep the allotment - no harm in planting some, but unlikely to get much of a crop for the first 5 years or so.