Pyrodwarf rootstock for pears

[Hereford fruit grower]

Does anyone else have trouble with this rootstock?

I bought seven pears on quince C. Perfect results. The trees are fruitful. They'll probably reach about 3 metres high eventually. After four years they're just over 2 m high.

Four varieties, less compatible with quince, I was sold on a different rootstock, pyro-dwarf. 'Dwarf'? Ha ha.

Without drastic summer pruning, these trees would by now be 4-4.5 m tall. There's more than 1 m of extension growth per season.

IMO 'pyro-dwarf' is a case of mis-selling. But I have a rich, moisture-retentive loam, pH 5.8-6. Maybe it's dwarf on poor or alkaline soils. 'FB' formerly of this forum would be able to comment usefully. He has a poor sandy soil. However, he seems to have vanished.

[fishpond]

Pyro Dwarf enables Pear trees to be grown on poor/diseased soil with a reasonable chance of success(unlike QA or QC)
Pyro Dwarf on goodish soil turns Pear trees into monsters (which is good, if you have the room)

I did grow a PD rootstock with nothing attached, but after 2 years it was bigger than my existing Pears and still going skywards so it was removed.

[Hereford fruit grower]

Thanks. What's your soil?

I'm on an extremely deep loam. The ancient perry pear trees in the district are probably the height of a ten-storey building, i.e. 25 m. They'll be on seedling rootstock. If PD produces trees half that height it's OTT.

Anyway I've already ordered four Q.C rootstocks from Buckingham Nurseries for supply in the bare root season. They'll either need

1) a Comice interstock (I've got a Comice tree; it's compatible with quince) grafted on in late winter, followed by budding in summer

or

2) budding in summer with a sliver of Comice between the scion and the rootstock

I believe 2 = more usual.

Fun to come ... I haven't done much budding and never of pears.

Keepers supplied the PD. They had a good reputation didn't they?

If others have had the same experience, I think it's very bad practice selling PD except with a warning that it only suits gardens that are a gravelly wasteland (like FB's).

[fishpond]

"Thanks. What's your soil? "

Chalk, Flint, Clay.

[Hereford fruit grower]

Blimey, clay on chalk doesn't usually produce monster trees.

Would anyone on a poor sandy or gravelly soil like four free pear trees on PD after I've budded the varieties onto a new rootstock suiting my soil, i.e. quince C? Varieties are:

Doyenne d'Ete (July)
Beurre Bosc (Sep-Oct)
Beurre Superfin (Oct-Nov)
Josephone de Malines (Dec-Jan or later)

Nice varieties, pity about the rootstock.

[Lardman]

I have 4 new pears on PD. With the exception of winter nellis They've struggled to put on any growth let alone monster growth They are espaliered so that may be keeping them in check to some degree, but even so.

The concorde I grafted this spring has barely made 4 inches and that's planted in one of the veg beds and not messed with.

I am however growing in a very thin loam on top of nasty, red, bricklaying quality, soft sand - seriously - I have laid bricks with it ! You can also add to that it's a north facing slope, but not too bad where the pears are around 1in6

They haven't been in long enough for me to comment really, perhaps they're still searching in the sand but from what Im seeing of it's performance so far I was wondering if it would be man enough for the job. I may regret saying that if they take off in a year or 2.

Using an interstem is on the list of things to play with here next year, apple wise at least - I've seen some videos which suggest you can graft both interstem and scion at the same time as a bench graft, and I don't see why not. If you have the source material you should be able to find the right size rather than praying the tigglets you've been sent in the post will take

[chrisdb]

I have a pear on Pyrodwarf. I went for it because my pears on QA are seriously lacking in vigour and even after 4 years are spindly little things. Unfortunately the pyrodwarf pear is, if anything, even less vigorous and has grown a few cm a year in its first two years.

They are in a sunny spot. I thought the QA were struggling because of the well drained, dry location, but I'm now not sure. Elsewhere in the garden I have apples growing perfectly happily and double the size of the pear trees on the same timescale.

So... either it was mislabelled as pyrodwarf or there's something about my garden that pears just don't like.

[TrixC]

My understanding is that pyrodwarf is only dwarf in comparison with pyrus. I think the Keepers website is pretty clear about this, they describe it as "semi-vigorous" growing to 5m. If the desire is for a dwarfing tree a lot of nurseries will double graft with interstocks for varieties that aren't compatible with quince.

[Hereford fruit grower]

This is now my conclusion, if I'm being charitable. If I'm being uncharitable, I'd say the word 'dwarf' was to divert sales away from quince and make the breeder more money. Quince I understand isn't patented. It was developed by East Malling (state-owned) in the days when the UK had a horticultural research sector. Also any patents would probably have run out anyway.

Note: my trees were purchased in 2012/2013 based on information then published on tree size. It takes time for pears to come into full crop.

Frank Matthews Ltd., who grow 500,000 trees/yr, rate PD as 'vigorous' and say 'probably more vigorous than claimed'. That I think is as close as they can come to accusing the breeder of not telling the truth. FM are on the same soil as I am (Bromyard series silt loam).

I'm still puzzled by the reports that on some soils it makes small trees. See the above postings in this thread.

Keepers now offer many varieties only on Pyrodwarf. Maybe they've never double-worked and don't want to start. Blackmoor confirmed to me that they double-work where necessary.