How many apple/plum/cherry trees to get decent harvest?

[d000hg]

We have 1/2 acre including a nice lawned area with 6 established bramley apple trees in the sunny end. There's space for 6-7 new trees at least and we want to have apples, plums and cherries (plus currants, raspberries and blueberries). I've grown stuff before but only in my little town garden where we got a few handfuls of fruit a year, so unclear how many of each type is needed for a reasonable harvest - I don't really want to have so much I struggle to give it all away which will likely be the case with the bramleys, honestly who plants 6 of them and nowt else? We'd like enough to use fresh for pies, make a bunch of jam, and use spares in wine/cider/giving away.

I'm keen on a russet eater (probably egremont) and a cider variety for the home-brewing, but could have a 2nd eater if recommended (I'm aware of pollination needs).
I have 2 cherry trees I got cheap but are yet to plant, as well as randomly a quince tree! I wonder if a single plum is enough, I know they can crop prolifically.

I'm looking to probably buy from www.ashridgetrees.co.uk most likely the larger size e.g. https://www.ashridgetrees.co.uk/egre...et-apple-trees but I don't really have a feel for how big these are and how old, hence how long until they start cropping and reach a decent yield. For such a good site, Ashridge don't seem to make this clear.

All advice welcome.

[Guest]

The more varieties you have within each family the more you improve your chance of a decent crop. There are so many things that can affect them that even when they are in the same pollination group there is no guarantee they will actually behave and flower at the same time. Even varieties that are self fertile will benefit from a partner. One of my pears trees only crops well when the rapeseed isn't in flower as the bees would rather go to a field than a single tree.

[ESBkevin]

It will depend to a degree on how big/small and well you prune the trees. Bigger trees might have more potential but you need a ledder or picking pole etc.

6 Bramley apple trees is quite a lot and you might consider swapping (like it is easy!) some for desert apples pears or plumbs.

[nickdub]

As has been said, the size of the trees is one limiting factor .

I have been in my current garden for over 30 years and I reckon one full size plum tree, say 50 feet high will give more fruit than any but a large family would need. Apples I grow as standards to about 30 feet high - 2 Bramleys like this give plenty of fruit, say about 300+ lbs in a reasonable year.

I grow other apples eg George Cave, Coxes and Ashmead for example as I like variety and they crop at different times of year - I eat a lot, I give some away and the birds get the rest.

Cherries are more of a problem - last year I had about 50+ lbs on one large tree and ate 2 after the birds had got stuck in to them.

Generally I'd say get trees planted in your garden asap because you can't recover lost years of growth but be prepared to top graft over to different varieties if you find later that you could do with more of another sort and not the so many of the ones you planted first.

Finally, no one much enjoys falling off tall ladders, so fruit in large trees can become a bit tricky to harvest, as you get older.

[d000hg]

I'd planned on keeping trees a reasonable size. Not head-height for optimal cropping like I think commercials might, but not massive to the point you can't harvest either - cherries I need to be able to net them (I think?) and plums I need to be able to thin them to prevent the risk of branches breaking under the weight.

As said, removing a couple of apple trees seems the idea situation but I'm loath to remove healthy trees when I can find the space. I know I potentially could graft onto the bramleys but I'm not sure where I get the graft branches from and I don't want to get that advanced yet. It's an attractive option to get lots of varieties over the years though.

I guess I will get a cider and two eaters (also a crab but they are low-maintenance and it might go elsewhere) so I've some variety. If I have a bumper crop of eating apples I can juice them for cider and get more use out of the bramleys (and crab).

[veggiechicken]

We used to make wine from the Bramleys. I'm sure you could make cider too.

[flynch]

You could always try graft over the healthy trees to a new variety rather than go through the trouble of digging them up and then dealing with Apple replant disease. There's lots of free videos on YouTube teaching now to graft, it's not as hard or as advance as it sounds just practice. My first attempt was 50% percent and this year was over 98% in only 2 attempts. So definitely worth having a go if you have too many of one variety.


You can get scion wood from the scion wood exchange, other gardeners of you ask them, the national fruit collection (small fee) even eBay (but I'd be sceptical of accuracy of rare varieties). I'd be happy to send you a few scions just so you can try it and see if it's something you'd like to try more of down the line.

[nickdub]

I'd planned on keeping trees a reasonable size. Not head-height for optimal cropping like I think commercials might, but not massive to the point you can't harvest either - cherries I need to be able to net them (I think?) and plums I need to be able to thin them to prevent the risk of branches breaking under the weight."

Fair points, probably the chief issue is that its almost impossible to restrict the height of a tree and keep it healthy easily by pruning alone - which of course is why most people buy trees on dwarfing root-stocks. These are widely available for apples, a bit less so for cherries and tricky, as far as I know, for plums.

Most of my apples are on MM106 which was considered a fair compromise when I planted them in the 80's. If I was starting again in a new garden I'd probably look at a more dwarfing stock these days.

Don't be put off from grafting by tales of how complicated it is, as provided you can bear with a few failures you will definitely get some success too. Top-grafting branches on large apple trees is pretty simple as long as you can live with a 75% success rate. As for scion wood I'd be quite happy to send some in the post , though of course it depends on varieties and requires a little planning with the timing.

[Chestnut]

My go-to gardening reference book has a handy table at the back which quotes ‘average yields’. I have only had one growing season on my allotment, so I haven’t verified these figures myself

Acid cherry 30-40lb per tree
Sweet cherry (bush) 30-100lb per tree

Apple (bush) 60-120lb per tree
Apple (cordon) 5-10lb per tree

Blueberry 5-11lb per bush

Blackcurrant 10lb per bush
Redcurrant 9-11lb per bush
Whitecurrant 9-11lb per bush

Plum (bush 30-60lb per tree
Plum (cordon)8-15lb per tree

Quince 55-100lb from a mature tree

[veggiechicken]

Don't know about anyone else but I've never achieved those ^^^ yields from any of my fruit trees/bushes - maybe the big apple trees, that's all. The cherries are pinched by birds before I taste them.
I'm clearly doing something wrong.

[d000hg]

Can't speak for myself but a mate gave me 40kg of cooking apples once and claimed this was about half the yield from his tree.

This year I know our friends had tens of kilos of plums from one tree but then plums can be crazy!

To those offering help with grafting, this is very kind and I'd be interested to take you up on it. I need to remove some branches on my trees anyway so is this a good opportunity?

[nickdub]

To those offering help with grafting, this is very kind and I'd be interested to take you up on it. I need to remove some branches on my trees anyway so is this a good opportunity?

You can do the pruning any time when the leaves are off, but the grafting generally is done a bit later than now, say roughly early March depending on the weather. Also with pruning you are aiming with apples usually to open up the centre of the tree to let in light and air, so ideally you want a framework left a bit like an upside down umbrella. I always advise taking out a large branch or two first with a saw on mature trees if pruning is needed, and reserve any cutting back with secateurs until later in the year when you can see what the growth is like. (obviously other fruit needs different treatment eg plums should not be cut with a saw at all ideally and also not until Summer)

As for top grafting apples you can get your scion wood ready any time now and keep it in the fridge - (let me know if you want a list of varieties I have please). What I do is to cut off a branch cleanly then split it with a sharp knife. If the thickness is up to about the diameter of a hose pipe I use one split, bigger I use two at 90 degrees. The scion is cut with a wedge shape on its end, the split in the branch prised open with the knife point and the wedge inserted carefully to line up the cambium layers - take your time to get this as accurate as possible, usually you put one scion on each side of a split. Once the scions are in I bind up tight with wet raffia. Then after I've finished all the binding I go round with a small brush and a container of hot wax and paint that over the cut ends and binding etc. The scions which take will grow out with new leaves etc and you can cut the raffia away in August.

[Scarlet]

Don't know about anyone else but I've never achieved those ^^^ yields from any of my fruit trees/bushes - maybe the big apple trees, that's all. The cherries are pinched by birds before I taste them.
I'm clearly doing something wrong.

Same here! I've two large plum trees too....not a sausage! Pigeons eat all the flowers
The walnut tree is alive with squirrels! I don't get a look in.

[veggiechicken]

I inherited a garden with an orchard of apple trees planted about 1940. They were huge and totally unpickable. Over the years, as they fallen over, I've replaced them with fruit trees on smaller rootstock. Some have been there for about 15 years but they still don't produce as much as the guide says.
I'm not knocking the guide, just trying to say that those weights are not guaranteed - there are too many variables.

[Guest]

Does anyone actually strive for quality fruit rather than bulk? I only have a few mature trees but even then I don't get those quantities nor would I actually aim for that. I know I am strange. As you were.