Different varieties - different flavours ?

[nickdub]

I've got two different sorts of Tayberry fruiting now - one has thorns the other doesn't. It seems to me than the flavour of the thorned one is better, both sweeter and with more taste. (They're both growing under similar conditions though the thornless one is inside the poly-tunnel while the other is outside).

It occurred to me to wonder if others had noticed similar differences in their soft-fruit. Also to reflect that growing a variety of fruit because it has the best flavour is generally not given much precedence when write-ups are done by those selling them.

Perhaps there would be some merit in having a few types of fruit where we all named our favourite varieties and so others could see this info when they were choosing what to plant ? eg Of the blackcurrants I have "Wellington XXX" is the one that tastes the best for me, being large, juicy and full of flavour.

[Mikey]

I think the problem with the argument is a matter of taste, not whether you have any or not but that taste is a sensory experience. When you grow something and nurture it, it will always taste better and be more valued than anything you purchase in a store.

So how do you judge one persons taste against another unless you do a random large-scale taste test?

I think the thornless tayberry is not as sweet but, if you think about it to remove the thorn you need less blackberry/bramble in the mix and I think blackberries are quite sweet when ripe.

[veggiechicken]

As a generalization, I've found that thornless varieties have less flavour than their thorny "cousins". Breeding out the thorns seems to breed out some flavour too. However, the ease of picking and "friendliness" of these thornless ones wins!!
Most of my fruit bushes are variety unknown!

[Mikey]

No pain no gain VC, look at nettles or sea buckthorn, or cloudberries (they only fruit when the mosquitos are at their worst!!)

[nickdub]

As a generalization, I've found that thornless varieties have less flavour than their thorny "cousins". Breeding out the thorns seems to breed out some flavour too. However, the ease of picking and "friendliness" of these thornless ones wins!!
Most of my fruit bushes are variety unknown!

With regard to choosing thornless varieties VC - I'd call you chicken, but that would be redundant :-)

[veggiechicken]

No pain no gain VC, look at nettles or sea buckthorn, or cloudberries (they only fruit when the mosquitos are at their worst!!)

I'll stick to looking at them and avoiding the pricking!
All the plants with thorns are being moved to the boundary fence - an edible hedge for anyone with thick skin!

[nickdub]

I think the problem with the argument is a matter of taste, not whether you have any or not but that taste is a sensory experience. When you grow something and nurture it, it will always taste better and be more valued than anything you purchase in a store.

So how do you judge one persons taste against another unless you do a random large-scale taste test?

I think the thornless tayberry is not as sweet but, if you think about it to remove the thorn you need less blackberry/bramble in the mix and I think blackberries are quite sweet when ripe.

Obviously as you say taste is subjective, but I think its possible to get past the home-grown issue by only commenting on ones you grow yourself. I've grown a number of varieties of black-currant including several of the "Bens", but keep coming back to "Wellington XXX" because it tastes best.

[Thelma Sanders]

I've got two different sorts of Tayberry fruiting now - one has thorns the other doesn't. It seems to me than the flavour of the thorned one is better, both sweeter and with more taste. (They're both growing under similar conditions though the thornless one is inside the poly-tunnel while the other is outside).

So they aren't growing under exactly the same conditions are they? Could the protection of one plant be why it tastes different?
I've been digging up my thorny Tayberries because the thornless one tastes better to me

[burnie]

My thornless blackberry is tasty and sweet enough to my taste, I dug up the Tayberry and binned it, almost as tasteless as the Honeyberry, that is in death row just now, it might get a reprieve if it produces something edible this year, other wise, in the shredder.

[nickdub]

So they aren't growing under exactly the same conditions are they? Could the protection of one plant be why it tastes different?
I've been digging up my thorny Tayberries because the thornless one tastes better to me

Well as I mentioned the thornless one is in the poly-tunnel the other about 10' away outside - apart from the indoor/outdoor they've received no fertiliser, but I have been watering them well the fruit is swelling as its been extremely dry here.

I haven't checked if there are any names on the Tayberry labels, so perhaps I ought to have a look in case we're all lumping different cultivars together.

[nickdub]

I've got 2 Honeyberries - no sign of fruit yet, but I'm not short of space, so I'll just leave them and see what happens.

[Runtpuppy]

I was commenting on something like this just today. I found the taste of raspberry Polka much better than the dwarf raspberry Ruby Beauty. There's nothing wrong with the RB's flavour. It's just that I find Polka to be nicer.

I too wondered if making it dwarf and thornless took away something from the taste.

[nickdub]

I was commenting on something like this just today. I found the taste of raspberry Polka much better than the dwarf raspberry Ruby Beauty. There's nothing wrong with the RB's flavour. It's just that I find Polka to be nicer.

I too wondered if making it dwarf and thornless took away something from the taste.

Seems quite possible to me that breeding for certain other desired characteristics has meant that taste has been lost to a degree. Its well known that in breeding many varieties of roses from the '60's on that a lot of those new ones had virtually no scent - with flavour and scent being so closely linked the argument seems like a good one.

A lot of the old varieties of apple went out if commercial production not because of problems with flavour or cropping but because they didn't pick and transport easily - James Grieve was a case in point as it bruises if handled roughly.

On a slightly different note the shorter varieties of peas were brought in for farmers so that a whole filed would be full-podded and ready for mechanical harvesting together - the old tall varieties of pea like Alderman seem better to me, but of course would be hopeless for a farmer, as the pods develop over several weeks.

[Runtpuppy]

Seems quite possible to me that breeding for certain other desired characteristics has meant that taste has been lost to a degree. Its well known that in breeding many varieties of roses from the '60's on that a lot of those new ones had virtually no scent - with flavour and scent being so closely linked the argument seems like a good one.

A lot of the old varieties of apple went out if commercial production not because of problems with flavour or cropping but because they didn't pick and transport easily - James Grieve was a case in point as it bruises if handled roughly.

On a slightly different note the shorter varieties of peas were brought in for farmers so that a whole filed would be full-podded and ready for mechanical harvesting together - the old tall varieties of pea like Alderman seem better to me, but of course would be hopeless for a farmer, as the pods develop over several weeks.

Slightly off-topic, but on a similar note, I was reading somewhere that if you use commercial yogurt as starter, your home-made yogurt will become 'slimy' after a few generations. That's because they use lactobacillus bifidus which is a hardier bacteria, so can tolerate being packaged and transported over long distances. Acidophillus (at least I think that's the one!) makes better yogurt, but is less hardy, so not as desirable in a commercial setting.

Also, I would have to agree with your example of the rose. the fancier the variety, the less intense the smell.

[Bumblingbroccoli]

I have a very very thorny tummelberry and it produces masses of monster sized yet still amazingly tasty berries. Sweeter than loganberry tarter than raspberry.

And my most vicious gooseberry definitely produces the biggest and juiciest fruit.

By far the best peas I grow are ne plus ultra. I don't have success with shorter ones, so these v tall peas are perfect. (6"+)