Sunflowers as a structural item on the plot, more than just pretty flowers ?

[no_akira]

If God had asked an Architect to come up with a plant, the winning designer would have been a sunflower...

In my Native American gardening book from 1880 (Hidatsas from Missouri) the very first plant that they sow in the 1st week of April is 'Sunflowers'. I've always thought this strange.

Imagine If I had an early variety of SF that I planted indoors in big pots in m.Feb and then plant out post-last-frost l.April. Along the centre axis of my mounded onion bed, I plant the x4 large pot SF along the bed axis. During these early wetter months they would act as moisture pumps reducing the soggy bottomness. Then come may (flowers appear) I lop the head off and strip 60% of the leaves to reduce transpiration and sow beans at there bases.

So Sunflowers can act as Moisture pumps for soggy onion beds and then bean canes... 8)

[veggiechicken]

I haven't a clue what you mean by "moisture pumps" but its common practice to grow beans up sunflowers.

[Snadger]

I had massive sunflowers last year and wondered about using them as climbing frames for other stuff this year while they are still growing.!
The stems are still lying by the compost heap and I wondered when they dry out whether I could make a bean wigwam from them?

[Paulie]

I had massive sunflowers last year and wondered about using them as climbing frames for other stuff this year while they are still growing.!
The stems are still lying by the compost heap and I wondered when they dry out whether I could make a bean wigwam from them?

I have used the previous years sunflower stems as canes for beans. They are a bit brittle, so you have to be careful when setting them up, but they are plenty strong enough for the beans. The native Americans had a companion scheme called 'the three sisters': sweet corn, beans climbing up them, and squashes as ground cover. I keep meaning to try it...maybe this year...

[Scarlet]

Where are you? Last frost 1 April seems a bit early?

I think sunflowers planted indoors in Feb would end up with a very weak stem due to lack of light unable to support the flower head.

[Snadger]

I have used the previous years sunflower stems as canes for beans. They are a bit brittle, so you have to be careful when setting them up, but they are plenty strong enough for the beans. The native Americans had a companion scheme called 'the three sisters': sweet corn, beans climbing up them, and squashes as ground cover. I keep meaning to try it...maybe this year...

I've tried the three sisters with sweetcorn, beans and squash! Not particularly suited to North East England though!

[no_akira]

I think the "Three sisters" is a "Lost in translation" type of situation. What it really illustrates is what we now call "combination planting" or as I call em' "Super-star pairings"

When I read my Hidatsas book what they describe (litlle plant spacing diagram) is basically a 8 x 4 Sweetcorn rows (or 'Block' planting) side on to the sun with beans sown at the "Five dot" position inbetween the Sweetcorn.

The squash were then sown in a separate narrow bed, a long snake like horse shoe shape, encircling this block (south facing).

At the back of this set up, 'Northern side' they had a well spaced wall of Sunflowers, acting as wind catchers or crow distractors. I think the NA Indians were always at war with the 'Crows'.

They also grew in little mounded, scrapped up soil into "little volcanos" for each station digging style. Makes sense

I think these little mounds were acting as 'little sponges' sucking up water through "hydrostatic pressure pumps" as the plant root systems bulk out.

They always grew on the level land "on bends in rivers" with "high water tables" this is why there is no mentioning of "watering" in the whole book... they had no bulk way of carrying water.

[chris_m]

I think the NA Indians were always at war with the 'Crows'.

Especially in Wyoming, Montana and North Dakota ;-)

[Jungle Jane]

It's difficult to pick beans if you need to walk through the corn,could you reach the middle corn/sunflower if beans were growing up it?

[Martin H]

It's difficult to pick beans if you need to walk through the corn,could you reach the middle corn/sunflower if beans were growing up it?

I understand that the native americans didn't have this problem because they harvested their corn, squash and beans together at the end of the season to store as dried winter food.

When I tried doing corn, butternut squash and climbing french beans, it was a nightmare because the squash got trampled when I picked beans and again when I picked the corn; while the beans didn't grow very well because I think they didn't get enough light under the corn. The squash did quite well but I discovered I don't like it much.

I didn't repeat the experiment.

Sunflowers might work better than corn but I suspect the beans would struggle again.

[Twynyrodyn]

I tried this last year. Had lots of sweet corn and squash but very few beans.

[boatsman]

Martin H
That's probably why it's called squash.