my newly dug patch...use weedkiller??

[MIDDLE AGED BEGINNER]

certainly have not had to go to the gym this week, having been allowed about a 5m square bit of lawn for a veggie patch next year, i have just finished digging it over. still sweating hours later!!!
as someone who is not yet organic [maybe when i know what i am doing a bit more] i am wondering if it is ok to use a weedkiller on my freshly dug patch- some of the weeds are just so deep and i have dug loads in rather than digging them out foolishly not thinking that they will just come back again.
i wont be doing any planting out in the patch until spring so if i use it now would it be ok by then?? if i do use it, would it be still ok to start digging in compost, manure etc at the same time or would that have to wait. as always all comments and tips much appreciated and i hope i have not upset anyone by suggesting using weedkiller- i know there are a lot of staunchly organic members here!!
mab

[rustylady]

Yes I do prefer organic, but do use weedkillers and insecticides when absolutely necessary. You say the patch you've dug over was lawn, therefore presumably you don't have brambles or docks in it. I presume the only perennial weeds you need to worry about are daisies and dandelions. If you are not planning to plant or sow anything till next spring I would suggest covering thr whole patch with old carpat or weed suppressant membrane (pr sturdy bits of cardboard) and leaving it alone till spring. Then you can dig it over again and start sowing. When you dig it in spring try to remove any dandelion and daisy roots, then you shouuld be off to a flying start. Good luck!

[PAULW]

MAB
Weedkiller is best applied when the weeds are activily growing, this time of year they are not so the take up of weedkiller will be minimal, so either dig and pick out the roots or as rustylady said cover the ground with carpet or cardboard.

[Alice]

Hello Middle Aged Beginner and welcome to the Vine. Yes we are all organic in our way. In relation to your weedkiller question, everything we buy has been sprayed with who knows how many sprays, so everything we don't spray is a bonus. I try not to use anything BUT I wouldn't sit and watch the weeds taking over or the critturs munching the lot.
What you have to look at is
Weedkillers only work well on green growth and at certain temperatures
so they work better when weeds are growing well and the sun is shining on them.
If you decide to do it spring might be the best time. Read the instructions on the weedkiller.
Organic we would all like to be, but it is something to work up to over a number of years.

[sewer rat]

Hi MAB
I would spread your compost / manure on your patch now, then cover it as Rustylady suggests. This will help to not only suppress the weeds but assist in the compost being taken in by the worms and other beasties without loss of too many nutrients by leeching over the winter months.
Lift the covering in sping, and it should be easier to dig out any weeds that are about.
Alternatively you could spray with a glyphosate weedkiller (Roundup for example) and thereby create a stale seedbed to sow and plant in.
Other than not removing perrenial weeds you did right to just dig them in - all plants pull nutrients to the surface to some degree and you have just put all that goodness back into the soil.
As for organic - organic growing is an ideal - I try but I use weedkiller on bare ground - and you cannot see any of my crops for weeds at the moment. So don't get into a pickle about it - just do what you think is right for you. At the end of the day, you need to enjoy looking after your patch - the moment it becomes a chore, is the moment you lose interest.
Good luck and above all, enjoy.

[MIDDLE AGED BEGINNER]

thanks for all that info folks. we are going to be replacing the lounge carpet soon so i think i will use the old one to cover the patch.
the only worry i had about covering was that i thought i had read that the winter frosts getting into the freshly dug soil would help break it up a bit. would this still happen if i covered it??
i have a patch of brambles just at the end of the patch; if i used weedkiller just on these would it seep into my adjacent bed ??
thanks again all

[Snadger]

...............i have a patch of brambles just at the end of the patch; if i used weedkiller just on these would it seep into my adjacent bed ??
thanks again all

Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup. It is a systemic weedkiller which only kills the weeds it comes in contact with. It will not seep and becomes inert once it contacts the soil.

I still wouldn't recommend using it, especially at this time of year and on such a relatively small bed!

[Alice]

Hello Middle Aged Beginner, I think you need to decide if you are going organic all in one jump or if you are doing it bit by bit. You're talking about putting carpet over part of the ground. Very controversial subject.Maybe you could Google on that subject and make up your own mind. Personally I would use weedkiller before I would use carpet, but check it out and decide for yourself.
You have a patch of Brambles ? Some people seem to find them a problem but I think there are much worse weeds. For Brambles I find if you chop them at ground level (not nice job getting rid of the choppings, but they do burn well) then chop at ground level anything that regrows, if anything has the cheek to reappear after that you can chop or give a liitle squirt of weedkiller. I've cleared great big bramble parches by that method. Good luck with the project.

[witch-1]

We dug up our garden for our veg patch too! Didn't get the weeds first time, but as things started to grow, I was constantly pulling out weeds from spring onwards... it was easy!

I have through the summer a fairly weed-free beds.

We only added a bag of compost (hadn't made our own by then!).

I would love to be 100% organic, but I'm also for an easier life... its compromise with me! I did manage to find organic slug pellets! now I've got the better answer to slugs - called Ginger, Salt and Pepper (my chickens )

Good luck next year! It will be our second year of planting.

Jan

[veg4681]

MAB,

We made our 2 planks high raised bed last April and lucky for us, it was very sunny.

I think my DH put up the planks even before digging up the lawn. Once he was finished, I dug out chunks of grass (with soil still attached underneath) and left them there to dry out a bit (didn't use weedkiller because I wanted to work the grass by hand). When they were a little dead looking, I shook all the soil from the roots of the chunks of grass and threw them into the bonfire pile. I even bashed them onto the planks to shake off the soil thoroughly.

It was a bit tedious way and time consuming but I wanted to have neat looking soil although I did leave a few chunks of grass behind as I got lazier towards the end. This method was fine for my situation because I had tons and tons of homemade compost that more than covered the full height of the raised bed (ended with a big pile in the centre).

Sometime when I dig, I come across these grass bits that have rotted down well so I don't think they're such a big problem. Also I think it's very easy to pull weeds on a heavily composted soil that tends to be loose so weeding is a breeze.

[Two_Sheds]

This is interesting... my neighbour isn't organic, at all. He uses Roundup like its going out of fashion. Tanks of the stuff. His plot is covered with weeds, esp.Chickweed.

I don't use any weedkiller, just hoeing/pulling/digging. I have virtually no weeds, and I'm only on the plot for a few hours a week now.

I don't know why this would be, unless he is using his weedkiller after the weeds have already set seed - whereas I pull up my weeds before they can set seeds. Also, he leaves lots of bare ground, whereas i keep mine covered with crops/flowers/green manures, which crowd out the weeds.

[rustylady]

Remember the old saying "One year's seeds equals seven years weeds". This is so true. As TwoSheds says, if you pull or hoe the weeds while they are small they don't get the chance to set seed so you are saving yourself work in the future.

[Polly Fouracre]

What about long-established nettles.We strimmed ours down a few weeks ago and I planned to zap them with glyphosate when they reappeared(now)Will spraying now do any good?

[Two_Sheds]

What about long-established nettles.We strimmed ours down a few weeks ago and I planned to zap them with glyphosate when they reappeared(now)Will spraying now do any good?

Nope. If you really want to get rid, you got to dig them out. they're fairly shallow rooted, but can go on for feet. They are rich in nutrients, so add to compost heap.
Nettles do support a lot of butterflies though, so keep a few if you can.

[chrissie the chippy]

I was going to 'round up' one of my plots, until my dad told me that when they use it at work, all the worms come up and look like they are in agony and if they could scream they would be was enough to put me off using any, especially on a large scale.

Opting for digging it over during autum and covering with horse poo, cardboard and black plastic Hopefully that will work ok.............. just got to dig it first.

Was tempted to just turn the grass over and let it rot down over winter, obviously pulling the weeds as we go? then the above....