I need some crop rotation advice

[palborn]

I'm having a problem getting my head around how to apply crop rotation to my plot. I understand the principles but am finding the practicalities of it difficult, especially as I have more than one bed for the same crop. It would be brilliant if someone could advise me on the best way to implement, say, a 4 year plan. I live in the Limousin region of France which has a similar climate to the South of England (although does get snow in jan/feb time)

I have 10 beds (each one 5m2) and am planning to grow the following:

Bed 1: Early potatoes followed by transplanted tomatoes
Bed 2: Brassicas
Bed 3: Early carrots, roots & onions
Bed 4: Maincrop Potatoes
Bed 5: Cucumbers, Aubergine, Courgette, Melon
Bed 6: Sweetcorn, Squash & Pumpkin
Bed 7: Peas, Beans followed by transplanted leeks
Bed 8: Maincrop Potatoes
Bed 9: Main carrots, roots & onions
Bed 10: Brassicas

Does this look like an ok use of the space or should I be aiming to utilise the space better? For example, I know the experts recommmend starting off brassicas in a seed bed but I don't have one so is it ok to plant modules straight into their final growing position? If I want to keep the same number of beds for each group how would I plant them up in years 2, 3 & 4?

Also, when should I be adding compost/manure to beds? What do the books mean when they refer to bulky organic matter? Should manure always be well-rotted? What does this mean - how long does it need to rot? I got some in October so when would it be ready to use? Similarly when can I use compost? How rotted down does it need to be?

I'm sorry for all the questions but I am a relative newcomer to this and I need all the help I can get!

[Jardiniere]

look on the growing techniques thread - SueE did one last year - she lives in Lot et Garonne if I remember rightly.
What grew in the beds last year? I had blight here in 2007 so am having to move my potatoes a considerable distance...ditto Toms.

[zazen999]

Hi
Wow - 10 beds!!! Excellent.

I personally wouldn't plant toms after pots; as they are the same family; just in case the bugs get high on the spuds and then attack the toms; plus my toms are in way before the pots are out.

I suppose it all depends on how you are rotating in subsequent years. Mine is:

potatoes yr 1
beans yr 2
brassicas yr 3
toms yr 4
roots yr 5.

I manure all beds except roots, every spring.

My carrots are moved about in higher mini raised beds; filled with fresh sandy soil mix [using non-manured soil from the lower beds; mixed with sand], which is not used again for carrots.

I try and keep toms and pots away from each other mainly because of blight; and the bug thing earlier.

All other crops [sweetcorn, courgettes, beetroot, celery, leeks, salads, cukes, etc etc]; are moved about as the space allows; and I sow regularly for longer seasons; to try and keep all the soil used as much as I can.

[Snadger]

I try and keep my crop rotation simple:-

1) tatties
2) legumes
3) Brassicas
4) Everything else

As long as you use commonn sense though and try not to grow similar crops in succession everything should be hunky dory!

[Hazel at the Hill]

potatoes yr 1
beans yr 2
brassicas yr 3
toms yr 4
roots yr 5.

I do that, but squeeze the brassicas in after the beans/peas to overwinter - as afterwards that bed is used for toms/squash/sweetcorn (tender stuff) they don't go in till quite late.

I'd very much recommend J Seymour's self sufficiency - especially for the 4 bed/year rotation plan.

His 'in a nutshell' guide to rotation is this:

"Manure that land heavily and sow potatoes. After the potatoes are lifted, lime the land heavily and the next year sow peas and beans. Once the peas and beans are lifted, set out the brassicas immediately from their seed bed. The brassicas will have been eaten by the next spring and it will be time for the mixed crops, and follow these with the roots, then back to spuds where we started."

Hope that helps - I'd use 8 of your beds for this, and then the other two for fruit....

[Two_Sheds]

I keep it as simple as poss, like Snadger. I follow a four year, four bed plan, with my plot divided roughly into quarters (although my bean quarter is always the biggest!)

1) beans and peas, sweetcorn and squash
2) brassicas
3) roots and potatoes
4) onions and leeks

salad go in where space permits, in between everything else
Manure needs to be well rotted else the ammonia will burn your plants.
Compost should be rotted down enough so that you can't recognise its contents.
Rather than dig out my compost heap and apply to my beds, (I can't lift much weight, bad back) - I take out a bucketfull at a time and put it in the planting holes, or as a mulch round individual plants.

Hope this is helpful ... your plans sound wonderful and well thought out, just don't get too bogged down in the planning (nothing goes to plan!) just get your hands dirty and enjoy it.

[veg4681]

Here are a few things to remember about crop rotation:

* Grow potatoes & tomatoes together but never to follow one after another
* Grow brassicas after the Legumes, they like the added nitrogen
* Grow potatoes following after the Legumes, this is also okay
* Don’t mix together brassicas & potatoes in the same bed at the same time
* Don’t grow carrots or beetroot (root veg) following direct after the Legumes
* Grow shallow-rooted vegetables following after the Root vegetables (carrot, parsnips) or vice versa - improves soil structure
* overall don’t plant the same crop in the same place two years in a row

I try to remember the basic cycle as:
Legumes (soil fixer) followed by Brassicas (heavy feeder) in another year followed by Root (something along the lines that they don't need very rich soil) in 3rd year (followed by Onion family, although I'm not too sure).

When I started reading up on CR, I was very annoyed just how many vegetables are actually Brassicas (cauli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccoli, sprouting broccoli, kale, swede, radish, kohl rabi???, turnip, almost all Chinese leafy veg that I like to eat lots) but you're sooooo lucky you have so many beds to play with, should make things easier .

[moggssue]

Thanks all - I know it wasnt my question but it has helped me in planning my own beds this year - and thanks to palborn for asking the question!

[momol]

I am keeping my crop ratations as simple as possible. They were devided in 4 group:

1.beans / peas group plus sweet corn and cuke ( to form 2 sisters).
2.Brassicas.
3.root crop ( including potatoes, onions,garlic) and tomatoes.
4.squash (summer and winter).
Other seeds such as chillies and aubergines... were kept in pots and grown in new compost.
Hope it help,
Momol

[palborn]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. You all basically seem to be saying the same thing, especially don't plant toms directly after potatoes. I suppose what I thought was that if it was in the same growing season it wouldn't matter.

I think having 10 beds actually makes it harder because you have more combinations to agonise over . Bear in mind though they are only 5m2 each although I am lucky enough to have space for separate fruit, herb & perennial veg growing areas. Does anyone actually use a separate seed bed for brassicas? Is it worth having? I do have the space for one but after having spent most of last year digging about 15 beds would like to give it a rest for a bit!

I do have the John Seymour book (actually have 2 but that's another story!) and had forgotten his advice on the subject so thank you Hazel at the Hill for reminding me. I spent last night re-reading his comments on veg growing and am feeling more confident. I suppose I just need to get on with it.

Does anybody want to comment on the manure/compost question?