Which way should it go?????

[ChocClare]

I am just about to lay out the bones of my vegetable garden in my new house (well, not IN it, obviously ).

If I stand at my back door, I am looking west. To my right (north) is the fence bordering a meadow which will never be built on. To my left (south) is the bulk of the garden, which consists of lawn and willow trees.

I want to lay out my vegetable garden outside the back door for ease of access and obviously, I want my veggies to get maximum light/sun.

However, I would like to put some espaliered trees along a path through my patch. Obviously, I don't expect these trees to be HUGELY tall, but they will probably be taller than I am eventually.

If the path goes across the patch, then the trees will face south. However, does this mean that anything I plant in a bed behind this (ie to the north of it) will be in constant shadow (probably yes, I'd have thought)?

So my question is - can I successfully have a path running north-south, so that the trees face west? They will not overshadow other plants to such an extent, but will they themselves get enough light?

Or should I just forget it and plant the trees along the most northern wall? And if so, where do I put my beans???!!!!

All advice gratefully received!

[HeyWayne]

I am just about to lay out the bones of my vegetable garden in my new house (well, not IN it, obviously ).

If I stand at my back door, I am looking west. To my right (north) is the fence bordering a meadow which will never be built on. To my left (south) is the bulk of the garden, which consists of lawn and willow trees.

I want to lay out my vegetable garden outside the back door for ease of access and obviously, I want my veggies to get maximum light/sun.

However, I would like to put some espaliered trees along a path through my patch. Obviously, I don't expect these trees to be HUGELY tall, but they will probably be taller than I am eventually.

If the path goes across the patch, then the trees will face south. However, does this mean that anything I plant in a bed behind this (ie to the north of it) will be in constant shadow (probably yes, I'd have thought)?

So my question is - can I successfully have a path running north-south, so that the trees face west? They will not overshadow other plants to such an extent, but will they themselves get enough light?

Or should I just forget it and plant the trees along the most northern wall? And if so, where do I put my beans???!!!!

All advice gratefully received!

Might help if you can post some photos...

[vegnut]

If you lay out your espaliers north to south along your path, you will get shadowing at different times of the day. I.E. sun rising in the east, means you will get mottled shade on the west side, which will reduce as the morning goes on, until midday, then you will have a lengthening shadow on the east side of the plot. All this is ok, but it depends on the size of your plot, making sure that you get some of it with 100% sun for toms etc, and also you will have to plan your crops so some that like shade will benefit. Like some lettuce etc. That's my thoughts. I hope they're some help.

[Nicos]

If the fence is on the North side of the garden, then the fruit trees will be facing south and get full fun if you were to plant them there.( you could even try a peach!!)

You could do a single layer of espalier along the path at knee height which you could step over and wouldn't cast much shadow at all and look really pretty.( it's got a special name but my Alzheimer's is kicking in at the mo!!)
A Y shaped path from the back door could take you into the veg plot and into the garden proper and then the trees would be facing all directions.

Beans ( and peas)could be grown in pyramids dotted about the veg patch.Remember - you'd need a new place each year for them as part of your crop rotation anyway.

Well - that's a few thoughts to chew over!

[ChocClare]

Thanks for all your ideas so far - Nicos, I know what you mean about stepover trees and had actually thought of that but I think they will be taller. I might have to end up either putting them along the fence or down one side of my vegetable garden. I was actually thinking about pyramids of beans/peas in the middle of the plot(s) so great minds obviously think alike!

Vegnut - you're thinking along the same lines as me I think - only thing is that the east side has my house on it so it wouldn't get anything from that side anyway but otherwise that all sounds good.

Wayne, as Kryten would say, that is an excellent suggestion (sir) with just two tiny problems: 1) I haven't laid out the garden yet so all you would see is a grass rectangle and 2) I haven't got a digital camera

Joking aside, I'm very likely not being terribly clear - if you think of my garden as an English flag (St George's cross): top is north (fence and meadow), right is east (house), bottom is south (open garden) and left is west (open garden and meadow). If I plant my trees across the flag (on the red cross!), will everything in the top of the flag be in shadow?
If I plant my trees down the flag (still on the red cross!!), will the trees get enough sun? I think (as Vegnut I think implied) that they probably would...???

Thanks for all your suggestions so far - I want to think this all through as it's the first time I've EVER had a fairly flat, rectangular piece of land with no trees growing in it or shadows (apart from the house and that won't cast much of a shadow except in the early morning) and I want to get it right and make it look pretty from the beginning. Impossible, I know, but one can dream!

[smallblueplanet]

Blimey chocclare, my head's spinning - from north to west to.....it'd be more straightforward for you to go out and get a digi camera!!! and you'll be able to post lots of piccys on here when you ask 'what is that'?!!

[ChocClare]

it'd be more straightforward for you to go out and get a digi camera!!! and you'll be able to post lots of piccys on here when you ask 'what is that'?!!

Well, truth be told, Manda, I do have access to a digital camera or three even though I don't own one myself so I may eventually take mystery pics of my plants (or other things ). Still not sure how pictures would help though - here is my lawn, now imagine trees on it?????!!!!!
(S'pose I could always get the kids to pretend to be trees...)

[smallblueplanet]

Look we just want to be nosey and see what your gardens like, okay?!

[ChocClare]

Look we just want to be nosey and see what your gardens like, okay?!

LOL! Well, why didn't you say so?

Here is the view from my bedroom window (northern hedge I mentioned is the one with pink roses in it BTW!) - so you're looking sort of north-west-ish. Everything south of this is lawn, honest!

[Snadger]

I would have thought that if you planted your cordon apples and pears along the West boundary they would benefit from sunlight all day long and not cast any shadow on your garden?

If you are wanting them to seperate your plot, then either side of a central path running E/W shouldn't cast shade on your veggies and you could even arch them over the path to make an ornate fruit tunnel?

[ChocClare]

you could even arch them over the path to make an ornate fruit tunnel?

Yes! You have said the magic words and won tonight's prize, Snadger! I must confess I've been looking at Oscar de la Renta's garden and his fruit tunnel haute vegetable garden: Outdoor Spaces Galleries: dominomag.com and quite fancied aiming for something like this (well, I can dream...)

[smallblueplanet]

Woah, I see what you mean about the rivergarden! So everything south of the 'rose hedge' is the garden? But we can't see that or am I confused? Or by south do you mean to the top of the picture? See even with pictures I'm lost!

[smallblueplanet]

...I must confess I've been looking at Oscar de la Renta's garden and his fruit tunnel and quite fancied aiming for something like this (well, I can dream...)

Bloody Hell girl! Go for it!!!!

[ChocClare]

So everything south of the 'rose hedge' is the garden?

Yep!

But we can't see that or am I confused?

No, you're not confused - I did say I haven't got a digital camera (well, there are digital cameras in the house I suppose but I can't be bothered to go upstairs and anyway it's dark!!!!) - you said you wanted to see my garden and that's a bit of it that I happen to have a picture of!! Honest, it's just flat lawn apart from this!

River does look worryingly close in this picture but it winds away from us along the bottom of our garden so we're not yet completely under water (touch wood!)

[ChocClare]

Ooh, I lied, I've just found a picture of my garden which actually shows the garden (result, eh?!!!!)

Right, this is looking EAST towards the back of the house - rose hedge is on the left and is NORTH - bottom of garden and river is behind you and WEST!!!!

Anyone got any brillo suggestions?

Thanks again everyone!