Planning my new plots - Total Confusion

[purrfik]

Hi,

Can anyone help please? I'm so confused! I used to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent female until I got started onto the subject of crop rotation. Every time I think I've got it sussed, I find another article or post that makes me have to rethink my plan. I know there's loads on here about crop rotation but it's what goes in the groups I'm getting confused with.

All I want is a basic plan of what goes in what bed that I can then use for the following years but numerous bits of paper later (that are now in my compost bin) I've had to admit defeat

Can I make use of all of your wisdom please?

I have 3 beds to use for vegetables and another permanent fruit bed. I will also have a greenhouse for crops

I really need to know what plants need to go together and what plants I can slot in where there's space - I can't figure out where I'm supposed to shove the onions

The only thing in one of the beds at the moment is my first early potatoes. I have chilli plants growing indoors on my windowsills.


These are the plants I want to grow - some are started off and some are ready to be put out - hence the panic!

1. Sweet Pepper
2. Melon
3. Courgette
4. Aubergine
5. Florence Fennel
6. Leeks
7. Onions
8. Shallots
9. Peas
10. Pumpkin
11. Carrots
12. Swiss Chard
13. Cauliflower
14. Runner Beans
15. Sweetcorn
16. Broad Bean
17. Calabrese
18. Brussels sprouts
19. Purple Sprouting Broccoli
20. Watermelon
21. Spinach
22. Turnip
23. Parsnip
24. Cabbage
25. Beetroot
26. Cucumber (outdoor)
27. Celery
28. Salad Leaves
29. Radish
30. Lettuce
31. Spring Onion
32. Tomato (Money Maker and Gartenperle)
33. Savoy
34. Kidney Bean
35. Potatoes (first and second earlies)
36. Cowpeas

Please, please, please, can someone put me out of my misery. I just want to plant a small amount of the above but I don't want to put them in the wrong place. I only moved a month ago and I'm trying to get my veg plots sorted so that I can then spend some time in the house emptying the rest of the boxes - (my veg plot is more important to me! )

[Rocketron]

Royal Horticultural Society - Gardening Advice: Crop Rotation
I found this the simplest to understand.

[hawthorns]

i have 3 raised beds aswell.
bed 1 onion family
spring onions
garlic
leeks
shallots

bed2 roots
carrots
beetroot
parsnips
radish
lettuce

bed3 brassicas
cabbage
sprouts
turnips
swede
broccoli

i have peas in containers
beans in wooden troughs
salad leaves, rocket and spinach in containers
potato in sacks
tomato in hanging baskets

[TPeers]

To quote from "Creating a Kitchen Garden" by Richard Bird

Crop rotation ... (is).. a simple and effective precaution against pests and diseases. The basic idea is that if you grow the same type of plant on the same patch of ground every year, the soil will harbour pests and diseases from one season to the next. If you move the crop to another piece of ground, the pests and diseases will lose their host and will die out.

A three year (four plot) rotation would therefore be....

Plot 1
Peas, Beans, Onions (inc Leeks), Sweet Corn, Marrows (Squash and Pumkins) and Lettuce.

Plot 2
Spuds, parsnips, carrots, beetroot, salsify, scorzonera and tomatos - root crops in other words.

Plot 3
Brassicas - cabbage, Brussles, broccoli, kale, swede, turnip, kohl rabi, radish.

Plot 4
Permanent crops - rhubarb, asparagus, perennial herbs, artichokes, seakale.

Use the greenhouse for the melons and cucumbers - toms too if there is space and obviously for your seed sowing and bringing seedlings on.

Hope this helps

Terry

[TPeers]

Sweet Pepper - root bed with the toms or greenhouse
Melon - Greenhouse
Courgette - plot 1
Aubergine - root bed with the toms or greenhouse
Florence Fennel - perennial herb
Leeks - onion family
Onions - ditto
Shallots - ditto
Peas - plot 1
Pumpkin - plot 1
Carrots - root bed (plot 2)
Swiss Chard - type of beet - root bed
Cauliflower - brassica
Runner Beans - plot 1
Sweetcorn - plot 1
Broad Bean - plot 1
Calabrese - brassica
Brussels sprouts - brassica
Purple Sprouting Broccoli - guess!
Watermelon - greenhouse
Spinach - I usually put it with the lettuce
Turnip - brassica bed
Parsnip - root
Cabbage - brassica
Beetroot - root
Cucumber (outdoor) - squash family
Celery - likes really rich ground so which ever bed you manure.
Salad Leaves - plot 1
Radish - brassica! Really!
Lettuce - plot 1
Spring Onion - onion family
Tomato (Money Maker and Gartenperle) - root bed or greenhouse
Savoy - brassica
Kidney Bean - plot 1
Potatoes (first and second earlies) - root bed
Cowpeas- never heard of them - but... plot 1?

[TPeers]

Ok..... having looked at all them - 16 plot 1's, 8 plot 2's, 8 plot 3's 1 permenant bed and one unknown.

so....... move the onion family to plot 4 to free up space in plot one and trade off with the squash family year on year.

And put the celery where ever there is space just remember where so you can put it somewhere else next year.

Terry

[Farmer_Gyles]

bear in mind i'm no expert on this ...
i have a 3 bed rotation system roughly as follows:
1 - roots (only spuds and carrots - no other root crops i want to plant out)
2 - peas, beans, "salad" stuff (runners, french, broad beans, peas, lettuce, spinach, spinach beet, some onions, celery)
3 - brassicas (cauliflower, cabbage broccoli, sprouts)

along one fence i have gooseberry, blackberry, raspberry, loganberry
along the other fence is rhubarb
also along the fences i'll be covering the ground and putting out peppers and tomatoes in pots
i'll have more peppers, tomatoes and hopefully cucumber in the greenhouse

i have another strip of ground for onions - my book says they can be grown in the same ground several years running and don't need to go in rotation system
i also have long tubs around the gooseberries etc with garlic and spring onion - apparently the garlic keeps bugs off the fruit
i didn't realise turnip and swede were brassicas until i read this thread!

last year i grew loads of radish, beetroot, sweetcorn etc but we just didn't use it all so not bothering this year

[sallym]

Now I'm confused. I thought that alliums and legumes weren't supposed to be grown together, but you have them in the same plot. Is it that they are just not supposed to be next to each other? And are there any other bad neighbours I shouls know of please?

[TPeers]

My preferance is to separate them but I have never seen much of a set back in either if grown side by side. I think the alliums are ment to give off some chemical which inhibits the growth of the legumes........

I'm not up on companion planting - alliums are said to be good at detering carrot fly if interplanted with carrots........

Onions are a funny crop, half the books ignore them in the rotation and give them space in the permenant bed the rest seem rather arbitary and it seems to be down to writers choice. I think it is probably safe to say that they can be incuded almost anywhere in the rotation the thing to note is not so much where you grow them as how well they do - if you get an area with bulb or neck rot you must keep all alliums away from that specific piece of ground for years if not decades!

They need feeding - but not too much and water - but not too late in the season. Supposed to be easy but I've rarely found them so.

[purrfik]

Hi,
Thanks for all your help........I must admit, it was the onions that were causing me the most confusion....... now to draw up the plan and start planting
This year really is going to be a trial for me to see what grows..........the soil is on the clay side which is something I've not worked with before........
I'll post some photo's as soon as I've unpacked my camera! lol
My OH rang me to say that I've a delivery coming.......he's treated me to a polytunnel so I've got that to put all the tender plants in - once I get it up!

[TPeers]

Nice! Enjoy the planning and the planting.

[Tracey]

Now I'm confused. I thought that alliums and legumes weren't supposed to be grown together, but you have them in the same plot. Is it that they are just not supposed to be next to each other? And are there any other bad neighbours I shouls know of please?

I found out after I planted my onions next to my peas that nodules on the roots of legumes contain bacteria that ‘fix’ nitrogen. Onions are antibacterial and shouldn't be planted with legumes. So, I dug up my onions and put them in with the root crops.