Complete newbie - Where to start ?

[eklipze]

I moved into a new house around Xmas. Now at the back of the garden there is a medium sized L shaped concreted off (ugly) area that looked ideal for a vegetable/fruit patch. Having not done this before but seeing my parents do this years ago I thought I'd give it a try.

That's where I left it until the start of the year where I saw it begin to sprout every kind of bulbous grass or flowering bulb you could think of.

So mid april when it started getting warmer I thought I'd get into gear. I've started digging it all out and I'm about 80% there now!! I've been looking around on the internet sites and have already realised I've missed the first 2/3 months of the season already, but I'm thinking, ok, I'll muck on and if nothing else, hopefully have something else prepared for next year.

So on to the questions.

Once I've cleared the rest of the contents where do I go from there:

1) I've read that veg gardens require a serious lack of stones, but I have literaly tonnes. How thourough do I have to be here? Do I just need the top few inches stone free or the whole plot as I presume digging over just moves more 'bottom' stones up to the top.

2) If I get 1) done, what then. I understand (I think) about rotating seperate areas to maximise on the fact that diffrent plantings will require different nutrients from the soil, so rotation maximises on this. But should I section off and plant out straight away or should I put in 'raised beds'. What are the advantages or dis-advantages.

3) From then on. What do I need to plant and when...

I realise this is a lot to answer, so if someone could give me rough answers to the above and also a recommendation of a 'single' book that would also help me in the above.

Lastly ... what is the likely hood that I will be able to start this year ? I'm thinking slim to none... but I'd like to start something.

Big post I know for a first post. But hopefully it will not be my last as I'm really quite keen to get this started.

Will post pics of the current state later when I'm home.

[Vmax]

Hello Eklipze, all is not lost - last year I was very late on a new plot. I put lots of potatoes in, against advice that I was too late, and had a great crop. I found that the spuds helped the soil also. You can still buy seed potatoes online from various dealers and I did see that Wyevales garden centre were still selling them. Also plant Broad beens and Beetroot straight into the ground. I am by no means an expert but it worked for me last year. Good Luck

[francesbean]

Hi eklipse - youre not too late. Vrmax is right see if you can get a few spuds in (you might still find a few in the garden centre) they are great for clearing the ground and easy to grow so you feel as though you have something. Also in first year try plug plants from GC also, Ive seen french beans, leeks, carrots,sweetcorn in the past few days- just pop them in and watch them grow. Get some cut and come again lettuce seed and radishes if you like them -pretty quick and once again -nice to see something coming up.

For beginners Id recommend carol kleins grow your own veg - simple instructions, not too technical (advice on raised beds and crop rotation also). I bought mine a short while ago from WH smiths for a fiver - check to see if its still on offer.

Your definately on the right track, wish Id done before and after pics - good idea, but I like you couldnt wait to get started - good luck at the garden centre this weekend!

francesbean

[SarzWix]

Hi Eklipze, welcome to the Vine

As to your questions, firstly, whereabouts are you in the country? That does make a little bit of difference to the questions of what to grow now.
About your stones, really it depends on how many there are in proportion to the amount of soil. If it's really a lot, drainage will be too good and your soil won't retain enough moisture for the plants to survive. If it's not that bad, then instead of trying to get rid of them all, you could just add a lot of soil improvers like compost or well rotted manure to the surface and gradually end up with a good depth of topsoil. You wouldn't be able to grow root crops like carrots in it though - as soon as the root hit a stone it would fork and you'd end up with very peculiar looking, impossible to peel carrots!
If you can afford it/have access to lots of wood, the quickest option to get good soil depth would be to build some raised beds & fill them with a mixture of topsoil & compost (you can buy it in bulk). If there really are so many stones that plants won't grow in it, then this might be your only option! Otherwise, I'd take as many stones out as you come across during 'normal' cultivation, plant plants into a bigger than normal hole adding lots of compost, and mulch, mulch, mulch!
As FrancesBean says, there are lots of veg plants in the Garden Centres and B&Q right now, so anything you've not sown in time you can pick up there. But there's still time for lots of sowing; beans, squashes, courgettes, sweetcorn, winter cabbages, kale, purple sprouting broccoli, calabrese - just choose what you fancy!
For which book to get, have a look in the Grapes Recommendations section, there's a couple of threads about best books there

[Two_Sheds]

If your soil is really stony and poor, you might be best to build raised beds.

Have a play around with the Search button on this forum - there's loads of information in the archives

[kermit]

I have just started on a new allotment too. After frantically digging it over I have thrown in some seed potatoes that I bought from B&Q (last weekend), some courgettes, broad beans, lettuce, radish, and beetroot. What you plant will depend a lot on what space you have and more importantly what you like to eat!! You can always cover over any unplanted bits with plastic or carpet to keep the weeds down until you want to plant other things later in the year.

[eklipze]

Thanks all. I did a bit of fishing on the internet on Friday and funnily enough, plugged for the Carol Klien book. Not on offer anymore :-(

Really good read and looking at the Veg section, found there's loads of stuff I can plant out as late as July. Won't be able to grow much from seed this year but can, as hyas been said, buy plug plants.

Was too hot this weekend so did not get out to finish the plot but regarding the stone issue. There are loads and loads, so I've resigned myself to get them out. Do not want to go for the raised beds option as it is not really required due to the plot size and I don't want to 'fork out' on a load of topsoil. I think I'm already going to have to add some due to the levels I'll be left with after de-stoning.

[eklipze]

Oh ... and I'm Hertfordshire as a location. So luckily blessed with the fairer weather.

[francesbean]

hi eklipse

By adding your own compost, and rotted manure, maybe stuff like mushroom compost or suchlike,you can bulk up your soil without the need to buy in expensive topsoil. What's your soil like anyway?

ps glad you liked the book, shame about the price though - I heard about the offer on the Vine- so keep logging in, you hear good stuff all the time!

francesbean

[eklipze]

Hmmm soil. This is where I get a bit lost.

Er ... it's certainly not clay. Quite dry and flakey but not too sandy I guess. No idea of the pH - should I test this ?

[Flummery]

Purists would. I tend to look at what grows well locally. If rhododendrons and azaleas grow well it's acidic. They go yellow and sickly here - it's alkaline. I have a science degree but I think gardening is about art!

[Garden_girlie21]

I got Carol Klein's book for a fiver and I swear, I have never read a book so much! So many of my friends/family just can't understand why I'd rather read a book about vegetables than a magazine like Heat for instance!

Good luck!!!

Jennifer

[northumberlandboy]

Hi Eklipze,

I just picked up an allotment last week and started a similar thing. I just gave it a good dig over (most of it anyway...back hurts) raked away most of the big stones. Bought some seed potatoes from the man at the local market fairly cheep and stuck them in. We heard too that they were good for clearing the ground. Starting to get tome shoots poking through already! (i think!)
We also bought Carol Cliens book earlier in the year as i was going to grow in containers thinking I'd be waiting for ages for an allotment. You should be alright with it in your location but i found in Northumberland i was planting everything too early. Also bought 'Vegetable Growing Month by Month' by John Harrison. It cost £6 new and its been brilliant.

Good Luck and hope everything grows well.

Gary & Jo

[Gwyndy]

There seems to be a real fad for raised beds at the moment and I see people on our allotment site building beds on perfectly good soil. They then import bags and bags of proprietary compost to fill them!! As Two_Sheds has said in an earlier post, use raised beds only if your soil is so poor that nothing will grow. (I have three raised beds on my plot right at the front where there is mainly rubble.) I would approach your veg plot on the basis of "suck it and see". Take out the big stones (you need some stones to give you drainage and stop the area becoming waterlogged) which could cause a problem with root crops, add plenty of organic material, plant up and see what grows well and what doesn't.

[KellsSimon]

Good luck!
I'm in a similar state myself with a new garden that had been under a world of slabs.
As were on a slope we've sort of built raised beds as a way of terracing to provide a flatter less quickly draining place to plant, but it also means we've got a limited area to plant in and weed! i know this might sound lazy, but i got caught out by my own enthusiasm before and only ended up growing buttercups. Living in the north of the north where i can see scotland and the isle of man, get blasted by high winds etc, it's obviouse to me i live in the med' and so i'm hoping (probobly madly) that i will get a crop of courgette and tomatoes outside this year!
suck it and see, and next year i'll grow somwthing different if i get no joy this year, maybe slabs!