phosphates and nitrogen

[suee]

I know it's a boring title, but I'm confused by the info about feeding needs for some of the veg on my list this year.
How can I give them a) lots of nitrogen or b) lots of phoshates - cheaply and organically of course.
I'm doing well with my home made compost, have loads of wood ash and have just got a load of free compost from the local tip (which seems to be cooked green waste - gone brown). I just need to know know which to use where?
Thanks, Sue.

[pigletwillie]

Potash from woodash is particulary good for alliums and fruit bushes but not blueberries as it will drastically reduce the soils acidity about them. It can also be spread about if you have plenty to your beds.

The home made compost should be very good but its nutrient content is unkown whereas the council compost should be treated as a soil conditioner only. You can add organic chicken manure pellets to the soil at peak growing times but best of all is probably manure, and lots of it.

[Snadger]

Chicken pellets or fish meal for nitro and Bonemeal for phosphates. Each of these organic fertilisers have a proportion of other elements i.e. bonemeal has a wee bit nitro and calcium but there main use is for the aforementioned!

Of course as piglet says farmyard manure has a bit of everything!

[smallblueplanet]

OT - ooh France!

Sorry to be off topic suee, but whereabouts in SW France are you? When does your growing season start?

[suee]

Thankyou Pgtw and Snadger.
We have chickens and well chicken poo-ed compost so I'm hoping the home made compost will do the trick.
So therefore; phosphates= woodash and nitrogen=compost?
Small blue planet - we are due west of Cahors. Contrary to most people's view of S France climate, the winters are very harsh and next week's meteo predicts -8 at night. Still, the summer makes up for that and I'm very proud of last year's crops, especially the melons which is why I was asking about phosphates. According to visiting family last year, the garden in May was about 6 weeks ahead, but by that time the peas had given up the ghost. I will for sure get it right this year and have got our local farmer to plough up more land. Sadly I'm having to order French seed potatoes this year, having been brought to task (re DEFRA) on this forum last year.
Sue.

[smallblueplanet]

Hi Sue

vaguely whereabouts west of Cahors? on the Causse? We like the look of the Tarn/Aveyron/Lot - ish area. The OH has to be somewhere where there is limestone & archaeology though!

I would like to be somewhere with proper winters - the flies are still alive round here!

I was hoping to try growing some charentais melon in the greenhouse - not the same I know!

What do you mean about DEFRA? If you look on the 'ratte spuds' thread (further down the veg thread) then there is an interesting looking salad spud?

Deep jealousy
Manda

[SimonCole]

What is your soil type Suee?

[suee]

Hello Simon and Mandy,
Hope this isn't boring the socks off everyone! We are in Lot et Garonne near Tournon D'Agenais - very very alkaline soil (off the scales!). The soil is very stony in one part of the garden, yet a few meters away it's beautiful crumbly orange stuff. My husband thinks it's the result of glacial or river deposits.
Re the melons - try the Fiji charentais variety - they were lovely, even though I did try to start picking them too soon. You have to wait till the fruit cracks away from the stem and they smell fruity.
Sue.

[suee]

I forgot about the potatoes - I brought English ones out last year as I love Majestics (from Kings at Kelvedon), but according to EEC regulations, was not supposed to. Anyway, we didn't poison the soil or anything and the pots were good. I've ordered Manon and Bio Sante this year so fingers crossed.
Sue.

[smallblueplanet]

How do spuds cope with the heat? Is it a case of starting things earlier and getting them out the ground sooner?

If none of the clever-lads answers how to get your soil less alkaline cos I've hijacked your thread, do start a new one and ask - someone will be able to make suggestions (of more than one variety no doubt! ).

[suee]

Yes Manda, we dug the last of the maincrop potatoes up early July - after watering them every dry day. I'd chitted them inside and planted them out mid March, so it was quite a quick season. We've just run out, so had good crops.
I'm not really trying to reduce the soil alkalinity as I remember Alan Titchmarsh saying it's a waste of time if it's really high. The cauliflowers love the soil and have to be seen to be believed, and most other things grew well, so no worries. We did suffer some tomato split skins as a result I think of sporadic heavy rainfall.
Happy gardening, Sue.

[SimonCole]

Since your soil is strongly alkali we can guess that it is indeed short of phosphate and probably a few micronutrients such as magnesium.

We want the micronutrients in moderation because in alkali soils these can soon grow to toxic concentrations with the minimal addition. The way to get them into your soil is by adding organic matter (humus). This radically alters the chemistry of soil by freeing up iron, allowing micronutrients already in the soil to be released.

Phosphorous is an even easier problem, I would use an inorganic phosphorous-specific fertiliser to ensure that enough reaches the soil and because you don't want all the other micronutrients that multipurpose fertilisers contain.

I would ease caution with wood ash. You don't necessarily need all the potassium it contains. Rather, keep it and only use it if you notice that the plants are potassium deficient. You can of course use it for all your pot-grown plants.

Lastly we have lowering the pH: This is easy in the UK but quite a deal harder in hotter environments where the pH is really high. You could add sulphur from iron works and the like, but this needs pounding and is nasty to handle. Your other alternative is Gypsum, its quite a bit safer so could be worth a go... Best of all both can remove salt from your soil if this proves to be a problem. I would just add humus and let that slowly lower your pH.

[suee]

Thank you Simon for that very detailed information. It may take me a few days to put it all in context and then I will probably send you a private mesage for further info. In the meantime I'm going to my grandson's birthday tomorrow!
Sue

[SimonCole]

Yep sure, just PM. Hope you have great success this growing season and have a great time tomorrow!

[smallblueplanet]

http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/

suee - have just received a catalogue from Graines Baumaux, lots of choice & lots of pictures!