Help!!! (With very unsuccessful seed starting)

[organic]

Hey folks, some advice would be much appreciated.

I've been trying to start some seeds in an unheated propagator.

A few weeks ago we had some nice, warm weather and I put the propagator under a roof window in the loft and the inside got nice and warm (not hot, probably somewhere around 20 or so degrees) - then things turned a bit nippier so I've now got it under a table lamp on a desk in the office.

I've sown the following:
5 x Tomato - Red Robin
2 x Squash - PattyPan
4 x Cabbage - Greyhound
6 x Sweet pepper - (2 each of Purple Beauty, Sweet Naradello and Golden California Wonder)

The tomatoes and squash have been in there for a few weeks and show no sign of any life at all.
Two of the cabbages got off to a good start but apparently didn't have enough light or something as they've gone very leggy and one now has the seedling leaves curling up into a cup shape. I potted them on when they were about 3 inches tall (they got there fast) but have pretty much given up on them. I'm still watering them to see what happens but doubt they'll get as far as the allotment beds.
One of the sweet peppers has germinated but now looks like it might be getting a wee bit too tall (still only got the 2 pointy seedling leaves but now about 2 inches tall despite being right under the desk lamp). I'll be potting that on tomorrow to see how it gets on.
Other than that - I've still got nothing more exciting than a module tray full of soil.

I've given the tray a bit of a misting with water once in a while - the soil feels slightly damp, but not wet. There's an absolutely wonderful earthy smell if I lift the lid to take a look. There's some condensation on the clear lid, but not at the top right under the lamp, that bit is clear (presumably too warm for it to form).

The soil is a roughly 60/40 mix of organic compost to sand. I'm thinking about getting a bag of potting compost from a garden centre just to eliminate this as a potential problem - that is assuming commercial potting mixes are sterile.

I'm at a complete and utter loss as to why I've had such spectacularly low germination.

Have all my seeds rotted? Have I drowned them? Have I cooked them (I suppose it's possible the temperature got too high at some point, not that I know what "too high" might be)? Am I being unreasonable in expecting things to germinate so quickly (I don't think "appraching a month" is all that "quick" but maybe I'm missing something)?

Anyone?

[taff]

hmmm...How much actual daylight are they getting? Sounds like when you put them in the loft it was warm in the day but too cold at night, and a desk lamp isn't cutting it for seedlings that did sprout.
Peppers need a bit of heat to germinate, like chillies, with a constant temp usually [I say usually because I sowed toms/peppers/chillies outside in an unheated greenhouse on March 18th,they've all got two leaves, but it is slightly warmer down here]
Sounds like a mixture of all three, squash seeds usually come up quickly, say about a week,so they really should have shown their faces by now.
Is there anywhere you can put them [probably new ones now] where they'll get daylight in the day, thenmove them further inside the room in the night?

[Paulottie]

Cabbage don't need a propagator.
Squash have rotted
Toms sound unlikely
all above no sign in 10 days likely to be brown bread
Chillies do take a while longer but it doesn't sound good.

99% of seeds don't need light to germinate..just a constant temp....just move them into the light when they have....you need more than a desk lamp...does it have a gro-bulb/daylight simmulation bulb?
Water before you sow and not usually again till they are up.
Sow squash seeds on edge.

[Two_Sheds]

Just what they says ^

You have to remove seedlings from propagators or they suffer: just use them to get actual germination

[northepaul]

I propergated my toms/chillis in a heated one, but as soon as they popped up I took the lids off. Chillis took a considerably longer to germinate though. I then placed them somewhere with lots of light...
My daughter had similar trouble with her chillis, but that was down to lack of light....have you got a south facing window?

[smallblueplanet]

Try sowing seeds that need similar conditions to germinate together too. Peppers & squash all appreciate heat/warmth to germinate, toms too but not as much.

You say your toms/peppers have only seed leaves (top 2) but are 2-3" high, well that a bit stretched but if you repotted them you could bury some of the stem when doing so and they should be fine - BUT its a bit soon to be pricking them out really, they could be left to grow on (they need good light most of all now) until they're bigger before moving them. How long have they been germinated?

How warm is your house? At this stage of the season most things will germinate quite well indoors on the table in an unheated prop (with lid). When things have germinated either remove them from the lidded prop (potentially not enough light & too damp) or remove the props lid & put somewhere light (hence sowing seeds with similar requirements).

The module tray you use is it individual modules or one big tray? Individual is usually a bit easier for germinating & pricking out. For sowing seeds they usually require a compost with limited nutrient content - but mostly I use seived peat-free multi-purpose, maybe with some perlite added (to help drainage) and vermiculite on top (to keep top of compost damp & stop 'crusting').

I start most things according to the temp requirements suggested on the back of their pkts, so cabbage/kale/spinach etc would just be in unheated lidded modules on the dining table at c.18C - lid removed & put somewhere light (& then outside) when germinated.

Everyone is different and has there own successful 'ways', those are mine.

[organic]

Just a quick acknowledgement of your posts - I've posted elsewhere today and don't want you to think I'm taking the advice and running...

I've got to pop out for a bit but will be mulling over what you've all said and will post a more useful response later on.

Cheers! (And keep it coming if anyone else has anything to add.)

[pjh75]

I have had real problems with tomato and pepper germination this year too and I follow the advice above about heat and light etc. I have used a mixture of old seeds and new seeds, so could understand if it was just the old ones that were failing. The frustrating thing is that I'm doing exactly what I did last year and the year before, I've used MPC like I usually do, sow in an unheated propagator in an unheated greenhouse, same time of year etc etc.

I do have some tomato seedlings now, but still no peppers. I have just bought myself a heated propagator and will try my third attempt at getting some chillies and sweet peppers to germinate before it is too late.

[taff]

It's been a lot colder this year than last few years, the temperature now is about what it was a month ago last year, so everythings a bit late. The daffodils are only now flowering down here, they're usually in flower a month earlier.

[SarzWix]

I'm probably just re-iterating what others have said, but...

Cabbages don't need to be in a propagator at all, you could sow them and then sit the pots/trays outside in the day and bring them back in at night if a frost is forecast and they will be happy enough.

Peppers and chillis, and to a lesser extent tomatoes, need warmth to germinate, and it should be constant, not too hot in the day then too cold at night. If you've got an airing cupboard, that would be good, but don't forget to check for germination, and get them into the light straight away when they pop up.

Squash- you've got plenty of time for them - they can't be planted out til mid-to-end of May up here, and they do get massive quite quickly When you do sow them, as Paulottie said, sow the seed on it's side so that excess moisture can drain off it instead of rotting it, and, keep it warm til it germinates.

HTH a bit.

[pjh75]

It's been a lot colder this year than last few years, the temperature now is about what it was a month ago last year, so everythings a bit late. The daffodils are only now flowering down here, they're usually in flower a month earlier.

Do you reckon that's all it is? I hope so... would certainly make me feel a lot better.

[taff]

Do you reckon that's all it is? I hope so... would certainly make me feel a lot better.

positive!!

[Fernw]

I started my tomato seeds, aubergines, cucumbers, melons and peppers in my heated propagator in the greenhouse. Tomatos were quite quick and I always remove them from the heat when they've germinated into unheated module but just pop a plastic lid over them at night if it's chilly. Same with the aubergines and cucumbers and they have plenty of light. I think it was on Gardeners' World last week that Tony Buckland said that he runs his hand gently over his tomato seedlings as it makes them sturdier! I agree if they've stretched just pot them up to the seed leaves and see how they go. So far waiting for my peppers but will keep them in the propagator at a steady temperature until they germinate as they can take longer. Same as smallblueplanet I use peat free multi purpose compost mixed with perlite and vermicullite on top.
I started my cabbage and broccoli off just in unheated modules in the greenhouse and they're fine.
Good luck with yours.