To use a rotervater or not Please advise

**Helgalush** · 13-09-2011, 06:43 PM

I've just got an allotment that is overgrown with weeds too, so would be interested to read other replies but in the meantime, I have found this blog to have some really handy information in it:

Growing vegetables on Leeds allotments - Getting Started

**Nigelsmith** · 13-09-2011, 06:47 PM

Thank you for the link Helgalush

**zazen999** · 13-09-2011, 07:19 PM

I'm sorry but the site bird is right. You will just make work for yourself.

Dig a bit, cover with cardboard or a whole newspaper opened out, weight it down and then move onto the next bit. Or cover the lot with cardboard and then dig a bit at a time and recover.

**chris** · 13-09-2011, 07:21 PM

Its not just brambles that you could potentially chop up into bits which will regrow... Other pains are bind weed, and couch grass.

I'd dig out as much of these perennial weeds by hand as you can, clear the annuals (much easier to come out) and then you can either rotovate or cover with cardboard (then manure if the ground is bad?) over winter.. This will smoother the weeds and then break down over winter to a nice friable loam.

Obviously using the machine is quicker and less back breaking

Welcome to the forum

**Nigelsmith** · 13-09-2011, 07:28 PM

Thanks guys but what is a friable loam ?

**chris** · 13-09-2011, 07:34 PM

A loam is a great balance of clay, Sand and organic material - ideal for veg growing. Friable is an airy, crumbly texture.

Do you know what the soil is like?

**mrbadexample** · 13-09-2011, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Nigelsmith View Post

Thanks guys but what is a friable loam ?

Friable = crumbly.
Loam = a nice rich soil (what you are aiming to get).

Welcome to the Vine.

**PAULW** · 13-09-2011, 08:03 PM

If you start digging now you are digging into the winter period when the weeds stop growing, if you hibernate and do nothing untill the spring the weeds will grow faster than you can dig and you will end up broken hearted and giving up your plot before you have grown anything, mark it out in ten foot wide strips and dig across the width of the plot this can be done in two or three hours, 130 ft divided by 10 = 13 days digging without killing youself.

**Nicos** · 13-09-2011, 08:13 PM

Hi there- and welcome to the Vine!

We're a very friendly/helpful lot here!

Would I rotervate??...only on a very well prepared site!

As the others say- any weeds will be spread more than 10 fold...hand digging during the first year will save you hours and hours and hours of time in the future!

**Rob the Radish** · 13-09-2011, 08:14 PM

There is another option,
If its that bad, and sounds a big plot, spray the whole lot of with roundup, or an equivalant type spray, one that will kill the roots not just the foilage, when it had died of it may need another go at any new shoots , then you are able to rotovate it knowing the roots will be dead so wont grow again no matter.

I am not a huge advocate of chemicals, but they do have their place if used properly.

Another option is hire a mini digger and turn it all over with that, have someone picking the bramble roots out as you go.

It will save a lot of work, but nothing beats the feeling of hard graft sometimes.

**Nigelsmith** · 13-09-2011, 08:27 PM

Hi guys well I'm no soil expert however theres a huge difference to the soil at the allotment compared to my soil at home,at home we have a very hard clay soil hard in the summer and wet and yukky in the winter hence lots of pots gravel designs etc...

The soil at the plot is like a dream come true (I hope) it's almost sandy very light soil and breaks up really easy,earlier this morning when I did a little digging once I had turned the spade and the soil over to be left with large pieces of soil the spade cut through the lumps like butter and you could rub it in your hands and it just divided into hundreds of tiny pieces.

I just feel a little weary at the thought of all these bramble roots,I kid you not but every single spade revealed a root

I'm not scared of hard work but it looks/feels like a nightmare plot at the moment and enough to put anyone off that compared with the massive bits of rotten carpet I keep finding in the ground and nails and general household rubbish etc.

I was hoping to get some onions and kale in soon the plants are sitting in the greenhouse waiting for the new home

Also do I need to get horse manure ? I can get a load and I mean a load for �10 dropped off right at the plot however will this sit on top or will this involve more digging ?

Please save me from this nightmare lol

Nigel

**Nigelsmith** · 13-09-2011, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Rob the Radish View Post

There is another option,
If its that bad, and sounds a big plot, spray the whole lot of with roundup, or an equivalant type spray, one that will kill the roots not just the foilage, when it had died of it may need another go at any new shoots , then you are able to rotovate it knowing the roots will be dead so wont grow again no matter.

I am not a huge advocate of chemicals, but they do have their place if used properly.

Another option is hire a mini digger and turn it all over with that, have someone picking the bramble roots out as you go.

It will save a lot of work, but nothing beats the feeling of hard graft sometimes.

I did forget to mention when it was totally wasteland the council did use weedkiller twice but I have no idea what sort ??? and they turned the soil twice with a tractor.

**Aberdeenplotter** · 13-09-2011, 08:42 PM

If the ground has been turned twice mechanically, it shouldn't be too onerous digging over by hand. It is a bind and it is bloody hard work but it is worth the effort. The dangers of chopping up perenial weeds has already been mentioned and that is reason enough in itself not to rotovate.

**Potstubsdustbins** · 13-09-2011, 08:46 PM

Nigel,

I don't have a lottie so am little use in your situation however I see you are considering horse muck. Before you buy have a look round this site has there has been some bad problems with infected muck, it can ruin your plot before you start.

Colin

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To use a rotervater or not Please advise