Becoming Barbara Good

[Kaiya]

D'ya know, I've started this post about three times now but abandoned it thinking "oo no, people will think I'm silly/unrealistic". But hey, I'm gonna post it! I know there's another whole self-sufficiency forum devoted to this sort of stuff but I find it a bit intimidating there - I much prefer my fellow grapes Long post so I bolded the point of it.

I have decided that what I want to achieve in life is to be mostly self-sufficient in food. I'm not a big consumer of unnecessaries, although I do have a few must-haves, like running my car and having internet, and initially I will have a mortgage. Because of those (i.e. because neither Virgin Media, Shell or the banks accept cabbages as payment) I will require a job of some kind to get the real monies, but I want to be in a position where any job I have is a supplement to my living, rather than the other way around, if that makes sense. Obviously my aim is to be mortgage free, but in the mean time my aim is to grow most of what I can eat, and keep my costs down in other areas so I am not utterly dependent on a job, and I can save up to pay off mortgage asap.

Most of what I read and see is families downsizing to the country, one keeps an office job, the other works the land etc. All calculations on how much space is required etc. are based on that sort of thing. My issues are that I can't downsize since I don't actually have an original size (living with parents finishing a PhD, on the point of finding a Real Job at which point I can start to think about buying a house), and I am single and likely to remain so, which is a positive in that there are less of me to feed, but a negative in that there are less of me to do the graft too. I always planned to become self-sufficient when I had a good job to support it (so, 5-10 years down the line) but realised recently that potentially that's backwards - I should become self-sufficient so I don't need to have a good job and can work instead doing something I enjoy now, rather than work my life away now so I can afford to work less/do what I want when I'm older.

So focussing on the food-side of things, I've been thinking about what sort of food I could produce myself. At the moment I'm a carnivore, but I have no issues with becoming quasi-vegan - I'd like to keep chickens for eggs but don't feel the need to raise my own meat, so I'm fine cutting meat out of my diet. Dairy I do like but again I don't really want to keep goats for the sake of milk in my tea, so will probably go without, or treat milk and cheese as a luxury I buy occasionally. I've no issue almost removing cereals from my diet since they don't agree with me anyway. And I can make my own wine

Food I know I will need to buy are larder things I can't make easily - oil, flour (for the occasional bit of bread or pastry), sugar, salt, vinegar, yeast, coffee, tea, rice and cat food etc. and the luxuries of fish and dairy occasionally. Plus I can't rule out food related costs for chickens or structures like beds etc.

House-wise I will be getting somewhere with a garden, it's a requirement and I'd be over the moon if the whole garden was productive in some way, so no issues with preserving a lawn or anything. I'm aware that over winter I may have to buy in some food, especially if we have a year like this one although I will preserve a lot and I'm generally unfussy about what I eat. Do you think it's realistic to think that on a diet of mainly eggs, fruit and veg it could be possible to be mostly self-sufficient in a modest garden? I think I'd need a garden about the size of a full sized allotment... does that sound sensible?

Not sure if I'm being unrealistic or not at the moment! Can't seem to find any comparable tales of people who've done this sort of thing alone, and at my life stage (aged 30, but still considered an 'early career' academic) - lots of blogs on families etc., can't find any on people in my situation.

I do have my own boiler suit, head scarves and lots of woollen clothes already.

[veggiechicken]

Get an allotment and grow your own fruit and veg now. If you buy a house at some point and its nearby, you'll still have an allotment and more experience of growing. Keep chickens for eggs and bees for honey.
Give up meat and regard milk/cheese as a treat. Wean your self off coffee and tea and drink herb tea instead using your own herbs.
I did all this some years ago so its quite possible!! (although I do drink coffee still )

[ancee]

Vc has a good point there actually No need to go down the horrible mortgage route as yet. Also, if you do get a tiny place witha tiny or no garden, then your allotment will be a greatly added bonus. Also, your mortgage will be a lot, lot less on a smaller place also a lot less if you don't have land round it. Could you not cultivate your parents garden as a begining? Surely they would appreciate lots of free veggies toiled by your own fair hands?! You can also see if it's the life for you?

[mothhawk]

^^^^^^ very good advice. And don't forget, growing sufficient food is a bit like having pets. You can't just breeze off on holiday and forget about the veggies, they need picking when ripe, watering if dry, preserving when there's a glut before they go bad, protecting from the cold, sowing successionally...there's a lot of work in a big veg plot.

[Kaiya]

Yay people replied! And no-one's said "Kaiya, you're dreaming" yet which is a massive bonus!

Ancee - I have an allotment now, and I co-opted the flower beds at home and stuck courgettes and tomatoes in there last year - didn't go down terribly well but I got away with it! There's a cherry tree in the border and pots of blueberries that magically appear in the garden, plus a series of blowaways that appear to be breeding. They won't let me dig up the lawn though, pft. I've been growing small scale (i.e. toms and herbs in pots), strewn around my parents' garden since I was about seven, I've always had toms on the go, and we got the allotment (tiny 1/5 plot) at the end of 2010. I've learned a lot from having an allotment though I'd still consider myself novice. I like my allotment but having a house with a garden is part of the dream too - I've lived in a flat without a garden once - I found it very hard to remain sane and ended up very sad, despite being able to walk to the 'sea front' (I lived in Southend). To be happy I need outside space. If it wasn't for wanting to be near my family I'd buy somewhere in Wales - nice place, good value properties. Unfortunately my family live in the South East, so I'll have to be a bit more cleverer/patient when shopping for a house!

VC - genius, herbal tea! Hadn't thought of that - much healthier too... When you did it, was it possible to be pretty much sufficient in food? I need to research also whether keeping chickens ends up less economical than buying eggs - I suspect it can do. Though economy is never the only reason for doing something of course.

Mothhawk - very good point - generally though I don't go on holiday for longer than four days (I get homesick/bored after that), my cats have never even been in a cattery and we've had one family holiday in the last 17 years (someone has to stay home for the cats). But restrictions are one of the reasons I don't want to keep my own dairy animals - feeding animals and cleaning them I've no issue with but twice daily milking would probably push me Generally though people have more trouble getting me to leave the house than stay in it!

What I want to spend my day doing is growing things, making food out of dirt, making a living directly rather than by proxy. When I mention it to people they say "is that realistic?" but I keep coming back and thinking "why can't I achieve it?" It's really hard to form the idea though without it sounding like I'm saying "I don't want to work". I do want to work, but I want to work on providing my own food, rather than work doing something else so that I can earn money to pay someone else to provide me with food that is a sad mimic of the quality I can grow at home.

I think my family think I'm having a quiet mid-life crisis. What I'm really doing is quietly exploring how to withdraw from modern life (whilst keeping my broadband and not becoming a completely isolated hermit). But trying to avoid making any rash decisions or assumptions!

[veggiechicken]

You'll always need some money to pay for the essentials - things like rates and services. So unless you can find a way of earning enough from your land to pay those bills, you have to work. That's the sad fact. I've been through all the thought processes you're taking, many times, Kaiya - I think of myself as "Digging and dreaming".
Have you considered being part of a commune? - they're all different but I know of one where everyone has their own house and garden but they share a large plot of land and have communal workdays every few weeks to do things like replenish the logstore. Most of them have lived there for years and seem very happy.

[Two_Sheds]

What you want Kaiya is completely contrary to "how we run things" in the UK, and indeed globally.

You need to be buying stuff, lots of stuff, because that "stimulates growth".

Good luck with it though

[chris]

Sounds ideal, I'd like to be self sufficient in veg and mainly in fruit too. I plan on paying my mortgage off ASSP (I was beating the 'system' until they changed the terms and conditions of my mortgage), but would like to pay it off, buy a poor of land, do a self build and grow what I want on my doorstep.

Wife isn't so keen, as she thinks well be living in a caravan. So of I can pay my mortgage off and get a good deal on some land I'd be we'll on the way.

I don't think I'd be ever able to give up work until I have enough financial security to retire though, as I do like what I do (despite it being very stressful and having to deal with idiots day in and day out).

What is your PhD in? Could you turn it into self employment somehow? You'd then be able to work somewhat around your other plans. Holidays are a big issue though. I have chickens, and it is a bit of a pain sorting cover out for them. I have a neighbour who will look after them, but they're mid 60s now, my garden that the crooks are in is a tip - so not too comfortable asking them all the time. Still, they do and appreciate the eggs. I haven't been away for more than a few days mind, they have a run but its not that big, so I'm thinking of extending it or setting up a. Auto opener on it, and running an electric fence around an area of the garden for them to wander around in of I went away.

Holidays are cheaper out of peak season, but then is the time when you'd be sowing in succession to be in supply year round (or as near to as possible...) I've lost a few plants after having them watered to much by someone looking after them when I went away for a week (before we had chooks).

Still, we get a lot of pleasure out of them and if push came to shove I'd pay for a chicken-sitter. Some things to bear in mind I guess.

Also - what I'd you meet mr/mrs right? Would you give up a self sustaining life style to keep them (happy)? Kids? They take up a lot of time when they're very young - but obviously are worth it ten fold

Good luck though! I'd you buy in Wales let me know - I'd love to pop over and have a nose!!

[Aberdeenplotter]

Great that someone has the courage to even think about it. Unfortunately though, cash is needed and unless you can produce a big enough surplus to sell and actually manage to sell it, you will need a source of cash.

As an aside, I thought Felicity Kendall was a vision of loveliness and still is

[alldigging]

BBC Two - Giles and Sue Live the Good Life

Not seen this but took the book out of the library

I'd love to be mre self sufficient .. A lottery win is needed for a move to somewhere with a couple of acres.

[Andromeda]

I wish you well Kaiya; it will take time and be tough but I don't think it's unreasonable that you could be fairly self sufficient wrt food.

I'm pretty self sufficient in fruit and veg, (the one major thing I don't grow is potatoes) and it takes a fair bit of time - it is immensely rewarding though. From getting serious about growing my own food, it took me about 3 years to feel reasonably good about covering my needs - I'm now experimenting with how I can reduce outlay on my plot.

I grow fruit, veg and even walnuts!

[Feral007]

Not me! Not unless I can live on silverbeet, snowpeas and lettuce!

My son however would love to be self sufficient and that is his aim. Of course, me having the farm is a big plus for him. We are putting in lots of gardenspace and gradually building up the produce, but I'd say it will be a while before he is 'reasonably' self sufficient. And then of course, if I ever wanted to move....

To me it's a nice dream. For him it's something to strive for. So at present we are doing what we can. It does make it hard to keep up with other young people tho. Most of his friends are into vehicles, pub nights, and stuff. '
I figure he can have a go and see where it takes him. But I do remind him now and again that he needs to have some skills that people need in case his mother isn't around to provide the basis.

I guess I like the fact that my son is not into 'having stuff' or 'getting million's' and such, so I'm happy to let him find his own way for a while.
Best of luck for you.

[Two_Sheds]

Do you think it's realistic to think that on a diet of mainly eggs, fruit and veg it could be possible to be mostly self-sufficient in a modest garden? I think I'd need a garden about the size of a full sized allotment...

Have you read John Seymour?

I'm a vegetarian, who eats milk, cheese and eggs occasionally. I base every meal around what I've got from the lotty: this time of year I'm living out of the freezer, which is stuffed full of soups & stews. Mr TS is a bit of a salad-dodger, in fact he won't really eat veg at all unless it comes in a Pot Noodle, so I have to buy all his food.

It takes a lot of time to grow your own food ~ I'm up the lotty nearly every day April to August, often for the whole day. Costs are low, because I've now got all my equipment, the greenhouse, propagators etc.

Clothing
I buy from eBay or charity shops, or make my own clothes (but fabric is expensive, so this isn't necessarily a cheap option). I can't make money by selling to others, because Primark will always be cheaper than me.

I can't sell my veg, because Asda will always be cheaper than me, plus people tend to want their veg washed, packed and frozen.

Transport
I use my bike for most journeys up to 10 miles, if weather permits. I use the car if the weather is dangerous or if I have loads to carry. Still, having the car costs me upwards of £30 a week, at minimal use.

Accommodation is always the biggest cost. Even renting isn't cheap, unless you can join a housing co-operative (if you live off your parents, lucky you, but you should contribute chores if you can't pay any rent).
If I won the lottery and could afford to buy outright, I'd give self-sufficiency a real go.
I knew a guy who lived in a tent on his lotty, but he was under constant pressure from the committee, who didn't like it. And he smelt.

You'll find more self-sufficiencers in the US I think, where land and petrol is plentiful and cheap.
Homesteading / Survivalism is a nice page, on Facebook.

[Nicos]

We have become about 50% self sufficient. And it's hard work.

I think you need to sit down together with a pen and paper and work out what you can't do without , or HAVE to pay for.
Keep all bills to see what you are spending money on and see what you can cut back on.

Friends and family will probably find it hard to come to terms with when they spend time with you.It'll be a totally different experience for them.

Self-induced hardship can be quite confusing to other peeps when they have spent their lives 'treating' themselves and their family.
Think glut and famine too- s@d's law will raise it's head usually during a famine period..maybe a family event at the other end of the country you can't afford to travel to/stay at/ buy clothes for- or something simple like not being able to go to the pub or buy a birthday gift for a close friend.
The 'Good Life' certainly needs to be looked at carefully without rose coloured glasses- unless of course you have some well invested money to dip into!

[Kaiya]

Also - what I'd you meet mr/mrs right? Would you give up a self sustaining life style to keep them (happy)? Kids? They take up a lot of time when they're very young - but obviously are worth it ten fold

Tricky one, but no. If I met Mr Right he'd have to fit in - unwillingness to compromise is probably why I'm 31 and single! I don't think kids are on the cards either any more.

Oo I have the John Seymour book somewhere - can't remember why but I didn't get on with it when I first read it but will dig it out and have another read. We also have the Giles and Sue book - I liked that but need to refresh my mind too!

Excellent advice all round - thanks! So glad I asked I shall start with monitoring my spending this year (I never usually monitor my spending as despite earning a modest wage I've always lived well within my means even paying rent/mortgage etc.) but this will give me more info on what my car is costing me etc.

It feels a bit like cop out to say "I want to be self-sufficient, except, you know, for the things I need/want" but there are bits of modern life I want to hold on to - my car, for independence and visiting family who are too far to bike to, my cats who need cat food and vet care, and broadband, because I'm also a computer geek and broadband provides communication and entertainment as part of it (i.e. don't need TV licence). That and council tax mean I'll have to have a job. Also no job = no mortgage/tenancy agreement. Rather than self-flagellation I think it's about lessening my impact on the world, improving my own stability/ability to cope financially, and also to some extent setting things in place so I can afford to be old lol - given that at this rate relying on a state pension is foolish and my private pension is tiny. Part of the dream is having stability and a buffer, financially, which means money, which necessitates a job, but also massively reducing reliance on money by being able to eat and survive at a lower cost than I do now.

I'm looking forward to things like Christmas, oddly. As I've grown up I've found Christmas gets less and less exciting when you start earning money and can buy yourself what you want during the year - I'm looking forward to needing things again. Does that make sense? Adding a bit of value back in. I've made presents for other people for 3 years now, though need to work on not spending more on making things than I would on buying them

Yep - most of my family are going to think I'm weird. Weirder than usual, anyway.