I'm new and need advice on where to start

[IndigoElectron]

The title says it all really! I've never done any gardening before, but we have recently moved from a flat to a house with a garden so now I have the space.

I'm ridiculously excited about growing my own and have been reading lots of books, now I want to get started! I've been given 4 tomato plants and have really enjoyed watching them grow and produce fruit, but I don't know what to do with the rest of the garden.

So - we live in a mid-terraced house, with a back garden roughly 8m by 5m. There is a bit of extra space at the side of the house but it's in shade, I thought I could use this for the compost bin and the water butt. There is a shed at the bottom of the garden, it's about 2m by 1.5m, and faces east. The fences on either side face north and south, the north facing one is covered with ivy. Most of the back garden is paved, and there is a small border along the south facing side, which currently has a couple of large bushes at the bottom next to the shed. The rest of the border contains dead plants and a load of mint which has taken over


My plans for the back garden are as follows:

1. Dig up the south facing border and start from scratch. Plant fruit trees at the bottom of the garden (e.g. cherry, pear) to replace the bushes. Construct raised beds for vegetables. Plant some flower bushes in between or on either side of the raised beds. Do I need to do anything to prepare the border for this?

2. Remove the ivy from the north facing fence and plant climbing fruit and veg (e.g. beans, peas, raspberries, blackberries), maybe along with some flowers.

3. Grow fruit and veg in pots and hanging baskets next to the shed (east facing) and wall of the house (west facing)


We also have a small east facing front garden, which is soil covered with small stones, and there is a large bush and lots of weeds. There are also loads of snails when it is wet. Plans are:

1. Get most of it paved but leave a small border along one side to grow sunflowers. Grow crops in pots, e.g. bay trees, lemon trees, orange trees. I'm not sure whether this would be the best use of space, or whether I should leave it unpaved and grow the trees in soil instead.

2. Plant herbs and salad in window boxes


I would really appreciate the input of some experienced gardeners. Apologies for the mammoth post but I didn't want to leave anything out. And if my plans sound completely ridiculous, please don't be afraid to tell me - as I said, I'm a complete novice!

[WendyC]

Congratulations on your new garden. It is very exciting! Firstly most fruit and vegetables like sun to grow well. Your north facing fence probably is the trickiest. Raspberries don't mind a bit of shade and Morello cherries are often recommended for a north facing situation. Choose your trees carefully as you need to think about rootstock and suitablity for your soil. FB is your expert here. You haven't a huge amount of room so I'm wondering whether you might get a better return on some fruit bushes like blackcurrants or gooeberries.
Compost will rot down quicker in the sun than the shade but I think your plan of having it in the shade is a good one to save the sun for plants. Two bins are better than one, one to fill and one to rot down.
Don't be in too much of a hurry. Over the autumn and winter you'll be able to do your clearing and construction ready for a blast come next spring. Barerooted fruit canes, bushes and trees are cheaper planted bare rooted over the winter so perhaps focus on getting these in. Go for a specialist like Blackmoor or Ken Muir. Beware bargains, they see to be more trouble than they are worth.
Good luck!

[IndigoElectron]

Thanks for the reply Wendy! It is good to know some of my ideas will work, like growing raspberries on the north facing fence. And Morello cherries, yum! As for the fruit trees, I will be growing for appearance as well as return, so I think I would still like a tree or two (I like trees).

I am now going to show my complete lack of knowledge and ask a few more questions

1. You said to choose my rootstock carefully - what is rootstock?

2. Is FB a person on this forum?

3. You said I need two compost bins, one to fill and one to rot down. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, I thought you just kept topping it up and the compost came out the bottom. I was going to buy this one:

Blackwall 220 litre Black Compost Converter HomePage

They also do a 330 litre version, which size should I get?

4. You talked about barerooted fruit canes and planting them barerooted over the winter - I'm afraid I don't understand this at all! My gardening vocabulary is somewhat limited

5. Finally, what will I need to do in order to clear the site and get ready for spring? I was planning to dig everything up and dig over the soil with some manure/fertiliser, is this correct? Do I need to wait for any weeds to appear so I can remove them, or can I get planting?

Thanks!

[Potstubsdustbins]

Hi, FB is a member of the Vine recognised as our expert on fruit trees. Any questions you have should be posted in Feeling Fruity FB will pick up the post and offer advice.

As to the compost bin I two use one of those it can take anywhere between 6 and 18 months to get good compost hence the advise to get two. Two Sheds is our expert on composting and she will be only to glad to help with this and others questions.

I grow in containers of all kinds so can offer help with that side of things.

Good luck with your project Potty

[WendyC]

No such thing as a silly question ask away!
1. To control the size of fruit trees the stem is grafted onto a rootstock. Apple rootstocks start with MM or M. You'll have to do a Google for more detail than I can put here. Or know for that matter.
2. Yes FB is our fruit expert.
3. You can just keep filling one but you may run out of space in it and it if you can leave the compost to rot down more it will be more broken down. Blackwall are well known brand, get the biggest you have room for.
4. Barerooted plants are dug up from the nursery when the tree is dormant (asleep for the winter) and posted with no soil on the roots. They need planting quickly when they arrive to protect the roots from being damaged.
5. I think your preparation plans sound spot on.
Hope that's of help.

[Martin H]

Welcome to the vine!

You won't want for advice on here...

I like your plans, you've obviously done a lot of thinking. The important thing to remember is that however good your planning is, not everything will work out! The trick is to not get discouraged and build on the things that work. Before too long you will be a world expert on your own plot.

I agree with everything Wendy said, but here's some follow-ups...

FB is an expert fruit grower who may well be along in a bit. If not, post in the Fruity section with some more specifics.

Bare-rooted trees and canes are just that: supplied with bare roots not planted in pots. Many of us think that if you plant them at the right time they get going much better than the potted ones, as well as often being cheaper because they are easier to transport.

With cultivated fruit, the branches, leaves and fruit are often from a different plant altogether from the roots, the two have been grafted together. The rootstock controls the speed of growth and ultimate size of the tree to a large degree. Picking the right one for your situation can be a bit of an art. FB (and others!) know about this stuff.

Compost bins: if you have enough space you will have three. You fill one up, then fork it over into the next one along and leave it to turn into compost while you fill the second one. When the second one is full, you fork it over into the third. It will now be time to start using the compost from the first one. Try and use it all up before the third one is full. In this way you always have one filling, one cooking and one emptying.

If you can't have three, have two: one filling and one cooking. When the second is full, empty the cooked one into bags leaving any unrotted bits to start the next heap.

The continuous cycling black bins ("Daleks") are great in principle but I've never managed to get them to work effectively.

Alternatively if you don't mind looking a bit "untidy" you could abandon the compost heap altogether and just chop and drop the surplus vegetation to be taken down by worms and other soil organisms where it lies. Works for some.

Getting ready for spring: dig out any perennial weeds, fork up any compacted ground, spread mulches of organic matter (or cardboard or newspaper, aesthetics permitting) as much as possible that you can plant through when you're ready.

[veggiechicken]

Lots of good advice in the previous posts so I shan't attempt to stick my oar in !! Just one thing, if you're going to buy a compost bin, check out your local council first, they often have them at subsidised prices. My council sells them for £5 - waterbutts and wormeries too.
Ggod luck with your garden - I look forward to hearing more about your progress - perhaps some photos - as we're all so nosey

[IndigoElectron]

The replies are brilliant, thanks so much everyone.

Potty, I will be growing a lot in pots, so will definitely ask your advice at some point, thanks for the offer. Martin, you are not far away from us! We're in Barking, and I work in Hornchurch

I've been thinking more about my plans and pretty much got my head around what we're doing. We can't afford to do everything at once, so this is what we're going to do now:

1. Dig up all the plants in the border in the back garden, and dig over/prepare the soil for spring.

2. Remove some of the paving slabs - I realised today that the border is only about a foot wide! So we need about three times this width for the raised beds.

3. Order a fruit tree (probably one of the 'family' trees, so we get more than one variety, plus the ones I've seen are self-pollinating) and plant it at the bottom of the garden. I have looked on the Blackmoor website and am really impressed, it's helped me understand more about rootstock etc.

4. Order our compost bin/bins and get it cooking Veggiechicken, the best our council offer is a bin for between £15-20, which isn't too bad, and I think they have an offer where you buy one and get the second half price. I do have some more questions about this so will post them separately.

5. Order and fit a water butt.


I will definitely keep you all updated, and will take some before photos and as things progress

[Jardiniere]

no advice just a welcome

[IndigoElectron]

Thanks for the welcome

[Guykp57]

Welcome to the madhouse ask and get the best advice ever



Sent from my iPad using Grow Your Own Forum mobile app

[IndigoElectron]

Thanks Guykp57, I've had really good advice so far, really happy I found this forum

[out in the cold]

Hi IE,

I am really glad you posted, as following the advice you were given, I now know I can get a 320 litre composter from my council for £25...

Welcome to the vine

[Penellype]

Something not mentioned above - when you are digging your border, make sure you remove all the mint roots or it will regrow - its very invasive. You also need to check for perennial weeds such as ground elder and horsetail. If you leave the roots of these in they will just appear again, and once you have planted your permanent plants they will be much harder to get rid of. Like everything else, gardening benefits from good preparation. If you find anything you don't recognize you can always ask.

Good luck with it and keep us informed

[IndigoElectron]

Thanks Penellype I actually started digging up the border today, it's hard to remove all the roots though! I've been using a garden fork. I've putt the plants aside to compost, is it ok to compost weeds? I think it's going to be trial and error, because I'm not familiar with which weeds are perennial and what the ones you mention look like! The part I'm digging up will be used for the raised beds, which will contain annual crops, so even if the weeds do come back I hope it won't matter as I can dig everything up at the end of the year and start again.