Is it possible to be 100% sufficient from allotment? How sufficient is your patch?

[AllInContainers]

Being so limited on space, I'm pretty much abandoning ALL traditional veg this year. Last year I grew carrots, onions, sprouts, tomatoes and other "normal" stuff .... and it cost me a fortune by the time I'd done with all the containers, compost and of course time. It makes more sense for me to go and buy the stuff that most people grow on their lottie - containers just don't give value for money in that respect. Great food and a great hobby, but not economically viable in my opinion (different story on a lottie)

This year I'm sticking with stuff that's not cheap - fruit - and stuff the shops don't sell. My veg crops are things like dahlia yams, asparagus peas, strawberry spinach, amaranth, Chinese artichokes ... but the vast majority of my space is dedicated to fruits. I'll not be self sufficient by a long long way, but I'll have a wide array of nice stuff to eat, a good supply of fruits for eating fresh and cooking/processing, which just leaves me needing to buy stuff that's comparatively cheap. I'm assuming some of the fruits won't actually give me anything this year, as they're still getting established, but I'm still not expecting to be buying fruit for about 4 or 5 months of the year despite my tiny growing space

As an example, I've been itching to have a go at sweet potatoes, but paying £12 for 6 plants (whereas 750g of sweet tatties costs 70p), getting three growbags, dedicating the time, space and feed .... it's worth it IMHO. Dahlia yams and Queensland Arrowroot grown from seed in the same space give me a root crop I can't buy, look fantasic while doing it, and cost less too. As for use of space, a pot grown Persimmon tree is easy, will (in time) return good yields, plus they're being grown "upstairs", which leaves me low level space for adding a dwarf pomegranate, some perennial herbs and incaberries in a very compact footprint - probably in not much more space than what gave me a measly 3 or 4 kg(ish) total of carrots and parsnips last year Strawberry spinach gives you leaf, fruit and root all with one plant. I grew six strawberry plants last year, and this year in about four times the space, I'll be growing EIGHTY strawberry plants (hopefully)

Imagine if you could apply the same levels of analysis and space management on a lottie plot - the amount of food could be enormous! Square foot gardening is all well and good, but it's very two dimensional If you want to increase your haul don't think square - think cubic, think upwards. I think with a full lottie plot, a bit of cunning and ingenuity, and some time dedicated to planning, you could prob feed your family and your neighbours on both sides ... just hope one of them is a butcher, the other is a fishmonger, and they're both up for swapsies

Just my inane drivel

[Kristen]

I've been itching to have a go at sweet potatoes, but paying £12 for 6 plants (whereas 750g of sweet tatties costs 70p)

If not already started then you may want to get some Supermarket starter-tubers in your next shop

IME they take ages to sprout (I think that's because they are treated with chemicals to stop them sprouting - if that's the case then when you re-use your own tubers next year it should be much quicker)

I suspended a tuber with one end just in some water, in a glass, using tooth picks until some sprouts appeared which I then used as Slips.

[Samuel1988]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am now going to get a piece of paper and a pen and proceed to write down my plan of attack for the growing season!

[AllInContainers]

If not already started then you may want to get some Supermarket starter-tubers in your next shop

IME they take ages to sprout (I think that's because they are treated with chemicals to stop them sprouting - if that's the case then when you re-use your own tubers next year it should be much quicker)

I suspended a tuber with one end just in some water, in a glass, using tooth picks until some sprouts appeared which I then used as Slips.

I think the bigger problem is variety. I'd be buying plants to be sure they are suitable for growing outside Up North in a North facing garden ... no greenhouse Supermarket varieties grown elsewhere, with a different aspect, and under glass might work, but I wouldn't even attempt it where I am from what I've read

[Kristen]

Ah, good point. Up North, Facing North, No greenhouse won't be quite the same as where the supermarket ones came from

I've only ever grown them in the greenhouse ... I wish you luck with yours.

[AllInContainers]

Thanks Kristen

I think I'll stick to the oddball alternatives this year, and see how much is produced and just how edible they are

[BertieFox]

Being 'self sufficient' is a ridiculous claim and to truly be so, you would not only have to work from dawn to dusk to achieve it, but you would need several acres and also be prepared to eat an incredibly boring diet. Any fool can produce plentiful vegetables and fruit during the summer months, but your staple has to be a very large quantity of some kind of carbohydrate. There is no mystery that most farmers in the UK have grown cereals for centuries but you need a lot of land and all the associated harvesting and processing equipment. Potatoes are the next best thing but so vulnerable to blight and careful storage. And who wants to eat potatoes every day? Peasant farmers here grow a lot of huge fodder beet that stores all winter and can be made into soups and stews, and also winter squash which will store up to March with luck. Forget meat other than eggs and a bit of chicken as you cannot grow all your own feed for the livestock and would have to sacrifice true self sufficiency if you buy it in. If you are dependent on electricity and gas, you are NOT truly self sufficient and the only true way to store without external inputs is by bottling and salting.

[Alison]

It depends on what you are talking about, the original query was about self sufficiency in veggies not livestock and certainly not electricity or gas (although I can claim something for the electricity as we do have solar panels ). Just veggies isn't really that difficult at all so long as you have a properly sized lottie. At this time of year I do practically nothing on the plot and in even in summer I can usually only go once in the weekend after work and part of the weekend. I do 99% of the work myself so don't call on others to help. Livestock is a totally different thing and I take your point and you certainly need more commitment as animals really do need every day care. I think the point I disagree with most is that it's a boring diet, it's not but you do need to plan well. I find the best way to go is to grow loads of different varieties so that in any year you still get something as you avoid the mono culture style failures. Actually I think we eat a far more varied and tasty diet since growing my own as it's all too easy to just pick up the same things in the supermarket every week anyway (apparently most people do). I listed what we're harvesting etc at the moment further up this thread, loads of variety and that's before you even think about different ways of preparing things.

[starloc]

Im not fully self sufficient yet....., but it is really hard work anyway!

I grow most things I eat...but apart from fruit plants/trees I have a very boring diet....lots of a few things that store well , various potatoes.....carrots, onions, turnips, parsnips and herbs, this year I am growing beans and barley as well

This year I am staying almost 100% in Bulgaria from next month, so its all got to be stored for the winter.

I am planning a biogas reactor to run a 240v generator, wind generator and solar panels, 99 % of the house is now 12V when its eventually changed over from mains it will all be from 12v and inverters for 240v if needed

In Bulgara when im not at my factory, im in the garden by 5am , given up by 10am , then theres the house repairs, put food on the woodburner, then more wood to be chopped, then if its too hot in the summer you just stop....( I tend to do the internet sites then ) , if not its into the house to clean things like the chimney, then as it cools down the garden starts again, repair of outbuildings, mud brick walls etc, then by about 10pm food and bed.....then it all starts again next day

I do this 4 days a week in BG while talking on the phone if needed, rest of the time its more normal work in the office or the factory if im needed

The only way they manage real self sufficency in Bulgaria is because most of the area take part in the same life style, not only the poorest people, nearly everyone who lives anywhere remotely rural ( most of Bulgaria )

For example were I am , lots of people have chickens, most people have a goat, many have a pig or a cow, the pigs are quite easy to control in a small area of the garden, the only feed they get are scraps / weeds from the garden for most of the year, everyone swaps for what they need

The animals dont feed in the garden.....Every day the various shepherds come and collect an animal as they walk past the house , walk them off to the common land all around the viliage to feed them, they spend all day walking round, just after dark he brings them back, they just file off into the correct gardens , the animals know were they live, the only ones they some times tie up are cows as they tend to stand outside the houses like statues eating the hedges if not tied up

the charge for the shepherd is very very low, something like a couple of pounds a month, but as nobody has much money its usualy paid in some eggs or veg, shepherd doesnt need to grow anything so has time to look after the animals, the animals need no food in the garden as they spend all day in the common land or hills , the animals get bumped off for the winter as its too expensive to buy feed and then people with animals swap with people with lots of veg

The only time money is needed is for things like the rates ( about £10 a year ), most people dont use much if any electricity, there is no mains gas, water from villiage natural springs or garden well, foor cooked on wood burner, wood is purchased by most people for about £20 a cubic meter ( again often swapped for someething ) , but many collect from the side of roads as they walk round if they want some

I cant see it being possible to do this to the level they do it in BG in the UK, but it is very possible in a rural area of a rural country like BG ,

Many people are dumping there jobs and moving over to BG for this reason

[binley100]

....... Any fool can produce plentiful vegetables and fruit during the summer months, ....

and there was me thinking I was a Master Gardener .......

[Kristen]

you would not only have to work from dawn to dusk to achieve it

I don't think it takes me a lot of time. There are times of the year when it takes a lot of time - preparing the soil in the spring, and raising the plants (e.g. March onwards) but once they are planted out (end of May, say) I'd be surprised if it takes me an hour a week during the rest of the season to weed, feed & water, other than that we pick what we need when we need it, and I doubt that takes any longer than going to the shops to get it. From end of September to March I do almost nothing in the veg patch, other than harvesting whatever we want to eat.

wrt boring produce: I've just had a look at my seed-sowing list for this year. I haven't carefully counted everything, and have just made a guess of the number of blank lines and repeat sowing etc. but it looks to be about 100 different varieties, and that doesn't include the perennials like Artichoke, Asparagus and soft fruit. I don't think we will be bored!

[Feral007]

Interesting to hear how rural bulgaria manages starloc. I have a bit of fun reading all the Homesteading sites in america.

They are off the grid, and all that as well. And have their emergency packs for when 'the system fails'.

The mindset is a little off centre for me.

But then again, we use electricity and I'm tied to work, and kid to school. Barring that we do try to grow as much as we can these days. Total loss this year. Almost no rain in the last 18 months. But trying to keep the skeletons (fruit trees, and bushes) of the fruit forest alive, to get back into it, if we get any rain at all. I'm hoping to get some hay to mulch up to the eyeballs this autumn/winter, and hope to have enough rain to get some autumn crops in.

One of the noticeable things in your post starloc is the swapping of food. I'm sure people do it in the UK, as people do in Australia, but it's something that 'happens' it's not an everyday occurrence for everyone. At the local hospital where I worked in one section , you would come to work at certain times of the year, to find silverbeet/squashes/rhubarb lying in a pile with a note - please take me home. But in the city hospital I work in now, if I wanted to sell my eggs (always boxes of f.r. eggs sitting around) they would need to order them first, pay me, have a set day to have them delivered, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be excited to have tiny bantam eggs, and green and blue ones, as I was the other day when I had to lash out and buy a carton from a friend. People are much more used to a set routine.
Had to laugh the other week before my boy moved away. He came out for a meal and a chat. I discovered there was little salad and it was far too hot to cook vegetables, so off he went muttering, surely there's Something in the garden. And yes, despite the baking heat and most things either bolting to seed or turning their toes up, he found some baby rainbow chard making an appearance, and a tiny red cabbage that has been trying to grow since last winter. A lot of people have the attitude - there's nothing in the fridge? and off they go in their car to the supermarket.

If you have to grow, like, eat broad beans tho, I'm never going to be self sufficient

[Bill HH]

Being so limited on space, I'm pretty much abandoning ALL traditional veg this year. Last year I grew carrots, onions, sprouts, tomatoes and other "normal" stuff .... and it cost me a fortune by the time I'd done with all the containers, compost and of course time. It makes more sense for me to go and buy the stuff that most people grow on their lottie - containers just don't give value for money in that respect. Great food and a great hobby, but not economically viable in my opinion (different story on a lottie)

This year I'm sticking with stuff that's not cheap - fruit - and stuff the shops don't sell. My veg crops are things like dahlia yams, asparagus peas, strawberry spinach, amaranth, Chinese artichokes ... but the vast majority of my space is dedicated to fruits. I'll not be self sufficient by a long long way, but I'll have a wide array of nice stuff to eat, a good supply of fruits for eating fresh and cooking/processing, which just leaves me needing to buy stuff that's comparatively cheap. I'm assuming some of the fruits won't actually give me anything this year, as they're still getting established, but I'm still not expecting to be buying fruit for about 4 or 5 months of the year despite my tiny growing space

As an example, I've been itching to have a go at sweet potatoes, but paying £12 for 6 plants (whereas 750g of sweet tatties costs 70p), getting three growbags, dedicating the time, space and feed .... it's worth it IMHO. Dahlia yams and Queensland Arrowroot grown from seed in the same space give me a root crop I can't buy, look fantasic while doing it, and cost less too. As for use of space, a pot grown Persimmon tree is easy, will (in time) return good yields, plus they're being grown "upstairs", which leaves me low level space for adding a dwarf pomegranate, some perennial herbs and incaberries in a very compact footprint - probably in not much more space than what gave me a measly 3 or 4 kg(ish) total of carrots and parsnips last year Strawberry spinach gives you leaf, fruit and root all with one plant. I grew six strawberry plants last year, and this year in about four times the space, I'll be growing EIGHTY strawberry plants (hopefully)

Imagine if you could apply the same levels of analysis and space management on a lottie plot - the amount of food could be enormous! Square foot gardening is all well and good, but it's very two dimensional If you want to increase your haul don't think square - think cubic, think upwards. I think with a full lottie plot, a bit of cunning and ingenuity, and some time dedicated to planning, you could prob feed your family and your neighbours on both sides ... just hope one of them is a butcher, the other is a fishmonger, and they're both up for swapsies

Just my inane drivel

I am hoping one of my neighbours is a lap dancer.

[Feral007]

That's very cheeky, Bill!

[BertieFox]

I apologise if my post about what self sufficiency really means sounded irritable and dismissive. I am fully in support of the attempt to grow as much as possible for yourself, but I am exasperated by those who like some of my friends, raise pigs, for example, but feed them entirely on bought-in concentrates from a sack, yet still claim this is 'self sufficiency'; or gardeners who make regular trips to garden centres or farms to truck in large quantities of compost and muck. All you are doing is importing somebody else's fertility on to your plot at the expense of the land it came from. But it's interesting to note that throughout history people didn't set up 'self sufficient' plots but co-operated together in village groups to farm and process what they grew. They certainly worked from dawn to dusk to do so, and anybody living a truly self sufficient lifestyle has to do the same, unless you are using lots of power machinery, which isn't self sufficiency as you are dependent on fuels. When people say, 'Oh but I just mean self-sufficient in vegetables', it's a bit like saying, 'I believe in chastity but I mean only staying faithful at weekends!' Having ranted on about all that, what we find with our several acres which overwhelms us with work in the summer months, is that it incredibly easy to produce massive surpluses of produce in summer and autumn, but that there is a famine in winter. Storage and freezing only goes some way to meet this dearth and even our highly self-sufficient farming neighbours who have been doing this for their lifetime have to resort to supermarket visits in winter. And that's despite having half a barn full of bottled fruits, vegetables and stored squashed and beets. Good luck in your efforts to be as fully self sufficient as you can, but recognise that it is far from easy to get even half way there.