I've made my mind up. No more John Innes seed compost for me.

[Chomerly]

Almost all of the seeds i have sown into the seed compost haven't shown any signs of life, or are completely inert.

Delphiniums - 40 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 and a bit weeks.
Lupin - 30 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 and a bit weeks.
Climbing French Beans - 6 seeds sown, 2 seeds sprouted after 2 and a half weeks.
Onion seeds - 12 seeds sown, 5 sprouted after 3 and a bit weeks.
Strawberry Baron Solemacher - unknown no. seeds sprinkled, none sprouted after 3 and a bit weeks.
Wisteria seeds - 2 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks (i've had issues trying to grow these anyway)
Chilli (capsium) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.
Chilli (De Cayenne) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.
Chilli (Hungarian Hotwax) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.
Chilli (Scotch Bonnet) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.
Sweet pepper (California Wonder) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.
Sweet pepper (Emerald Giant) - 6 seeds sown, none sprouted after 3 weeks.

Now, i thought this may be my growing technique. I am a novice in reality.
So i've planted the same seeds, and others, using these cube like pellets called Root Riot.
Apparently they are an excellent way of starting off seeds so i decided to sow some of the same types listed above, with the exception of ones that i had run out of.


Climbing French Beans - 4 seeds sown, 3 seeds sprouted after 1 and a half weeks.
Chilli (Hungarian Hotwax) - 3 seeds sown, 1 seed sprouted after 1 and a half weeks.
Chilli (capsium) - 3 seeds sown, 2 sprouted after 1 and a half weeks.
Chilli (Scotch Bonnet) - 3 seeds sown, 1 sprouted after 1 and a half weeks.

An odd one out of this list is the tomato seeds i had sown.
Of the 3 that i had sown, 2 have sprouted and i think i could just make out the 3rd just beginning to push up the surface of cube its in.

I've had better luck so far using these things but they're not cheap.
They cost £11 a bag.
I can't remember how many you get in a bag but when i get out to my shed tomorrow i will find out.

[Kristen]

I use John Innes seed compost because it is very fine, sandy, and has excellent drainage. When I come to prick out it falls off the seedlings very easily, so there is minimal root damage and no entanglement with the seedling's neighbours etc. When I used to use MPC I found that two seedlings would both grow roots into a "lump" and there would be damage at pricking out.

I also like it as it has no / little nutrients, so no risk of over fertilising young seedlings.

But ... getting the moisture level correct is tricky.

Might have something to do with the brand you used perhaps? Was it nice and fine, or full of lumps and rubbish?

Either way, best to choose what works well for you

[AllInContainers]

I have been using a John Innes derivative this year (Verve's to be specific) and have found it no better than the "non-soil" compost I was using last year. If anything I have found the seedlings harder to extract without causing root damage this year, as it seemed to compact more under repeated watering. In fact I potted on three melon seedlings earlier today, and once I'd done this I tipped out the rest of the JI compost from the original pot and was quite surprised at the amount of roots that remained.

However, I must say I haven't found germination to be any worse than the seed compost from last year. In fact I have actually had to weed my seedlings, as there was other stuff in the mix that was dormant and hatched along with my own seeds.

My personal conclusion is that JI mixes are overpriced and gimmicky in relation to cheap seed compost, and when potting on I'll stick with MPC (whatever happens to be cheap at the time), or MPC mixed with store bought top soil (I tend to use Wickes for a good price) and water/feed accordingly.

[darcyvuqua]

I use wilko 15 ltr bags of compost at a £1 a bag to start my seeds off found it great I then move onto a decent compost for growing on I do however add perlite at a 4:1 ratio though

[dim]

Jack's Magic is OK... over 95% peat with added seaweed .... add a bit of perlite to that and it will be good

not cheap though .... costs over £6 per 60 litre bag at my local garden centre

most of the compost at my garden centre seems to be made from grass clippings and leylandi hedges (especially the peat free stuff)

[RaptorUK]

So i've planted the same seeds, and others, using these cube like pellets called Root Riot.
Apparently they are an excellent way of starting off seeds so i decided to sow some of the same types listed above, with the exception of ones that i had run out of.

. . . .

I've had better luck so far using these things but they're not cheap.
They cost £11 a bag.
I can't remember how many you get in a bag but when i get out to my shed tomorrow i will find out.

Perhaps the difference is not the change in growing medium but the change in date when sowed and hence the change in temperature and light level/light duration ?

I have sown all my seeds in JI seed compost and have good germination rates for the most part, my biggest failure were my Asparagus seeds, nothing after 4 weeks from 25 seeds, then in desperation I put them in my electric propagator and within 2 days they were coming up.

We also had problems with some Pansies, none showing until we put a lid on the seed tray (in the unheated greenhouse) . . . now we have 90% germination with them.

[Two_Sheds]

Perhaps the difference is ... the change in temperature and light level/light duration ?

Yes, it would have an effect. Is Chomerly using a heated prop & a clear cloche for these tender seeds?

[Bren In Pots]

I use B&Q Verve multi compost a 125L bag costs just under £6 seems to do the job well.

[Two_Sheds]

most of the compost at my garden centre seems to be made from grass clippings and leylandi hedges (especially the peat free stuff)

well I'm having great results from this year's PF mix: Miracle-Gro® Expand 'n Gro Enriched Compost - Peat Free £8.45 (2 for £10 at Bodgit & Quit)

I didn't start any seeds until my sun reached over the garage roof: otherwise everything sits & sulks in green mouldy soil

[Chomerly]

Maybe, as said earlier, it is because of the tie of year and the increase of temperatures as a result.
The only sure fire way of knowing would be to the same types of seeds, from the same packet and in the same environment.
As i no longer have any of that seed compost its something that i can' really do now without buying more.

[Two_Sheds]

What did you do with the seed compost you already used? You could reuse it as part of a trial

[Bill HH]

As I understand it seeds will germinate in almost any compost soil mixture, they even germinate without anything on a wet flannel for instance, providing they have warmth and the right amount of water. So i would not dismiss your seed compost. It is after they have germinated that they require nutrition.

[Maddiesaur]

On 28-03-2014 (Checked the "What I did today" thread to be exact), I sowed 45 seeds of varying things into Pound shop MPC that was two years old and had been opened and part used last year and year before. I have 80% germination today, with only a couple of herb seeds yet to come up. I'm in an unheated flat in a cloudy and chilly Glasgow (compared to southern weather recently.. not jealous at all) and they are not in a heated prop. I didn't expect a thing to come up but my peas are at 2" high already. I'm a novice but that alone has taught me compost probably isn't the be all and end all in germination

[Madasafish]

I use B&Q Verve multi compost a 125L bag costs just under £6 seems to do the job well.

I'm with Bren .. nice even fine consistency..


Levington MPC was rubbish - lots of big strands.

[Chomerly]

What did you do with the seed compost you already used? You could reuse it as part of a trial

Chucked most of it into my compost bin.
The majority of it i mixed in with multi-purpose compost just to improve the texture and drainage a little and i still have a bit in some cell trays.

Ironically, of the Delphiniums i planted some weeks ago, two have popped through the surface.
Also, i'm unsure of whether they are weeds or not, i have something that is growing out of the soil in one of the cells i planted a certain variety of chilli.
In the soil i had sown my strawberry seeds, something is growing there too.
Only one seedling from all of those strawberry seeds i had sown mind.
Assuming that it is a strawberry that's sprouted.

I've used a few different germination methods in the past and had some good success.

Perhaps its just me.
But i remember have difficulty with this soil last year.
Especially when growing Basil.
I found the seedlings to be very, very spindly and it took forever to acclimatise them to a different soil type.
Even using John Innes no. 1 and then no. 2 used to cause them to suffer from nutrient burn really badly but putting them into a cheap bag of regular MPC, which was my first introduction to B&Q's Verve brand, seemed to be just right for them.
Now i know there are a number of reasons for this but when a pattern seems to form, whether germination or weak growth, then something must be wrong somewhere.