Hybrids

[Stacey]

could someone please explain to me what this means exactly??

[Snadger]

A hybrid is plant that has been bred by using two or more parents to improve it in some way. Hybrids can be bred for uniformity,tolerence to pest or disease, early fruiting, temperature tolerence,size either big or smaller, etc and probably hundreds of other reasons!

Usually seed taken from a hybrid plant will not grow the same as the parent, whereas plants grown from heirloom seeds will grow true to the parent!

[Stacey]

could you explain by using some names (made up is fine) as an example cos im still confused.

[Peter]

I'll give it a go with real names.

You have a bitch poodle.

Your friend has a dog cocker spaniel.

They get together, have a drink or two, things go a bit fast for a first date and you end up with some hybrid puppies, Cockerpoo's.

Hearing Dogs use them.

Labrador + Poodle = Labradoodle.

[pigletwillie]

And two labradoodles would come out like goodness knows what.

Most hybrid seeds are "F1". For example Butternut squash "Harrier F1"

Whilst the F1 varieties are generally bred for farmers as they give consistent size, yield and harvesting times (amongst other atributes), any seed saved from them and resown may or may not look like the F1 variety. They may turn out to be excellent but also may turn out to be pants.

F1 seed is good as it has known traits but you are at the mercy of the seed merchants as they tend to pull varieties from production fairly regularly. With heirloom or open pollinated seed you have a much more varied choice of seed that you can save yourself and replant, safe in the knowledge that it will be the same as its parent.

I use both F1 and heirloom / open pollinated varieties on my plots.

[Cutecumber]

An F1 variety means that it is the first cross between the parents. It can only be replicated by doing that cross again - that's why it's expensive. You can't expect the seeds of an F1 to come true - they may produce something similar, but you usually lose the benefits for which the cross was produced.

So, our parent plants are A and B. We've chosen them because A produces a massive crop and B is resistant to a virus. After lots of trials, cross-pollinating them in a sealed environment (so that no other pollen gets involved), we think the offspring is consistent, and we market it as C (F1). This tells the buyer that it is a hybrid. We know it will grwo well and we know that our customers will have to come back every year and get more seed from us, because they won't be able to get the same great results by saving seed from C. Oh, and we certainly don't tell them what A and B are, just in case they feel like experimenting!!

Hope that's of some help.

[Stacey]

i think im getting it a bit more now. but still slightly confused. Surely there must be times when the F1 variety is able to be saved because it is consistant in coming true. And surely it would be through a similar process,natural selection I think it may be called, that we got the parents in the first place? Please correct me if im wrong, i never was any good at science. xx

[Peter]

i think im getting it a bit more now. but still slightly confused. Surely there must be times when the F1 variety is able to be saved because it is consistant in coming true. And surely it would be through a similar process,natural selection I think it may be called, that we got the parents in the first place? Please correct me if im wrong, i never was any good at science. xx

You are wrong.
And I'm bored, recuperating today and over the road builders have just started the demolition bit of a garage to kitchen conversion, so I'll try and stretch my brain by having a stab at this.

Apologies but the forum is overruling my table columns so headings don't line up.

Genes come in pairs, dna is a double helix or spiral of chemicals that controls what cells or organisms become. One spiral comes from each parent and there is also sometimes (I believe) a bit of variation from the parents exact spiral to the bit that gets passed to the offspring, but lets ignore that. So offspring are a mix of the parents characteristics.

Lets say there are two pairs of genes that determine some characteristic of a berry.
x & y.

Lets say x is colour and y is shape.

Each of these has two possible values.
x1, x2 and y1, y2.

When you cross two plants (or animals) you get one value from each parent making up the pair of genes for the offspring.
Lets assume the "2" is recessive and the "1" dominant. Dominant meaning a single value present will force that characteristic on the organism, Recessive meaning both values need to be that value to force the characteristic on the organism.

x1 x1 Red
x1 x2 Red
x2 x1 Red
x2 x2 Yellow

and

y1 y1 Round
y1 y2 Round
y2 y1 Round
y2 y2 Cylindrical

Put them together and a majority of offspring will have Round Red berries.

Red Red Red Yellow
Rnd Rnd Rnd Rnd
Rnd Rnd Rnd Rnd
Rnd Rnd Rnd Rnd
Cyl Cyl Cyl Cyl

One out of every sixteen offspring would have a cylindrical yellow berry.
Three out of every sixteen offspring would have a cylindrical red berry.
Three out of every sixteen offspring would have a round yellow berry.
Nine out of every sixteen offspring would have a round red berry.

The F1 is produced by crossing a plant that has x1-x1 and y1-y2 with a plant that has x1-x2 and y1-y1.
Possible offspring are all red with round fruit.

Parents x1-y1 x1-y1 x1-y2 x1-y2
x1-y1 x1x1-y1y1 x1x1-y1y1 x1x1-y1y2 x1x1-y1y2
x1-y1 x1x1-y1y1 x1x1-y1y1 x1x1-y1y2 x1x1-y1y2
X2-y1 x2x1-y1y1 x1x2-y1y1 x2x1-y1y2 x2x1-y1y2
X2-y1 x2x1-y1y1 x1x2-y1y1 x2x1-y1y2 x2x1-y1y2

These are your F1 Hybrids which you enjoy.

They are made up of four plants with only the dominant gene for each value of each pair, four plants with a recessive value for half the colour pair, four plants with a recessive value for half the shape pair and four plants with a recessive values for half of BOTh the shape and colour pair, BUT they all look the same.

However when THEY breed together some of the resulting second generation offspring will have x2-x2 and y2-y2.

Example Only as there are LOTS of permutations.
Two plants with gene makeup of x1x1-y1y2

Ignore the x as it will always be dominant in this case, thus Red.
The y can be
y1 y2
y1 y1y1 y1y2
y2 y1y2 y2y2

Therefore one in four of this generation will be Cylindrical and two more of the four will also have the ability to pass on Cylindrical (recessive) to SOME of their offspring.

The real thing is much more complicated.

[OverWyreGrower]

*Splat*

My head has exploded.........

[Snadger]

Well done Peter!(...........and so you should be!!!!!!)


Clear as mud! Lol

[jacob marley]

Any body want to explain F2 hybrids whoopsjacob

[Peter]

Any body want to explain F2 hybrids whoopsjacob

Jacob, how can I put this?


No!

[jacob marley]

Jacob, how can I put this?


No!

thanks peter nice one jacob

[Shelle]

Wow! :confused

You remind me of my cousin analyses everything into mathemical terms no matter what subject we are talking about! Even on christmas day he started it on the little puzzle in the cracker Mind you he has spent 7 years so far in university, not the "real world"

[TPeers]

I'm well impressed Peter!

I haven't played with simple Mendel progeny theories for years! I doubt I could have remembered it all.

He worked with sweet peas and fruit flies didn't he?

Well done!