Pumpkin seeds question.

[nellie-m]

I grew a pumpkin for a seed archive this year - minimum number of plants to harvest seeds from in order to keep the variety healthy in the long run is 12 plants. I grew 21 so as to be able to select.

[Scarlet]

I wouldn't have the room for 21 plants

[nellie-m]

NVG - don't worry about the "clear film", that's normal, just rub it off. Seeds turning white-ish when drying is normal - I find that the ones that stay darker are usually duds with water inside so they don't dry as quickly as the rest . I do get the odd one even though I only use the seeds that sink in water and discard the ones that float. You want the plumpest, heaviest ones that will give the best supply of energy and nutrients to the germinating seedling.
If you have tons of space and like an experiment, give them a try. If your space is limited and you want to be sure your labour will pay off and give you nice edible pumpkins, get a few seeds of a known variety

[sparrow100]

I grew a pumpkin for a seed archive this year - minimum number of plants to harvest seeds from in order to keep the variety healthy in the long run is 12 plants. I grew 21 so as to be able to select.

Crikey! And there's me saving from one. Just wouldn't have the space for that number of one variety. I might up the number of plants for saving from to 3 though.

[Feral007]

I don't hand pollinate, and I've had fab pumpkins just the same as the one they came from.

Having said that, this year I'll probably have duds, because I read this.

[sparrow100]

I grow mine on a busy allotment site. Winter squash are grown a lot, so if I didn't hand pollinate I think that I would have a mix each time. I don't have enough space to risk it.

[Two_Sheds]

I don't hand pollinate, and I've had fab pumpkins just the same as the one they came from.

... and I've had funny crosses when I've done it: rampant green marrow type things that weren't very nice, and things from a seed swap that said "Red Kuri" but turned out to be round green things

[nellie-m]

I am very lucky because there are only two other people in my village who grow veggies (fancy having a garden and not wanting to grow greens!) and they are a good distance away from me. I also asked them whether they would grow runner beans or courgettes and they didn't. If they wanted to I'd offer them free seeds of the variety I plan to grow so that there'd be the same variety in both gardens

Sparrow, saving from three is definitely better than from just one. You could "tame" them a bit by cutting them back when they sprawl too far, and still have the same number of pumpkins as if you'd just grown one. Or you could let one go berserk and use the other two just for one single fruit to harvest seeds from, and for pollinating the large one.

Also, for that kind of outbreeding plant, it could be an idea to start a seed circle for just that variety. If only five people saved from three plants each, just one or two fruits, and then swap seeds so everyone gets seeds from all the plants, that would easily achieve the same goal.
For a variety that is very rare and hard to obtain, that could totally be worth the trouble. And as for example pumpkin seeds stay viable for several years if stored properly (the seeds I got were at least six years old) it wouldn't be necessary every year....

[nellie-m]

Do you like the idea of the single squash circle? Then please let me introduce to you that fabulous pumpkin / squash I grew this year and if some of you are interested, we can start a new thread in the seed swap corner and make it a seed circle for this variety - I'll gladly donate the seeds. (Usual seed swap rules will apply of course).

It's said to be an ancient variety of the native Mandan people of North America. There are a few maize varieties around that also go back to their traditions so if you google for "Mandan" you'll most likely come up with those. This Yellow Mandan squash is, to the best of my knowledge, not available in Europe commercially. I got the seeds from the Arche Noah archive in Austria, similar to the HSL in the UK, and will send fresh seeds back in to them in return.

I volunteered to grow this one because it has nice small fruits, about two pounds when ripe, great for a small household. Unlike other pepos, its skin is very thin even when ripe and doesn't have to be removed, which is nice because I'm lazy Plants do not grow very high (my courgette plants were taller) but they are pretty vigorous crawlers, some had more than twenty fruits in the end. I did cut off a lot when still very unripe, up to the size of an orange or grapefruit, and used them just like courgettes (which are close relatives, also C.pepo, and will cross with it). They look like those Rondini courgettes, but the YM flesh is crisper and I find it has a little more flavour. It's wonderful in salads and stir fries so whenever a plant gets too rambunctious just cut off and use what is too much.

The ripe fruits turn yellow, they look lovely and make a great decoration. I cannot yet say how well they will store. As I said, you don't need to peel them, and they taste really really nice simply fried in a pan, or baked in the oven. I've also cooked and made a kind of puree from them with finely chopped leeks and parsley which was also nice. I can really recommend this variety and think it deserves to be revived!

I uploaded a few pictures for you today, you can have a look at my album here:
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra....+pepo%29.html

Let me know what you think. Did I make your mouth water? Would you like to help save this variety? Will you be willing to hand pollinate and save seeds from at least a couple of fruits from three plants? You will need a nice sunny spot and at least 2 - 3 square meters of space per plant. If I get five "likes" for this post I will start a thread in the seed swap section.

[sparrow100]

Sparrow, saving from three is definitely better than from just one. You could "tame" them a bit by cutting them back when they sprawl too far, and still have the same number of pumpkins as if you'd just grown one. Or you could let one go berserk and use the other two just for one single fruit to harvest seeds from, and for pollinating the large one.

Also, for that kind of outbreeding plant, it could be an idea to start a seed circle for just that variety. If only five people saved from three plants each, just one or two fruits, and then swap seeds so everyone gets seeds from all the plants, that would easily achieve the same goal.
For a variety that is very rare and hard to obtain, that could totally be worth the trouble. And as for example pumpkin seeds stay viable for several years if stored properly (the seeds I got were at least six years old) it wouldn't be necessary every year....

Yes, am well aware of that. I have a half plot and want to grow more varieties till I know what I like, this is the trade-off I'm happy with. Not all of them are single plants (ie stuff for seed circles were multiples), but it's not as if I am growing for commercial purposes or a seed bank. Not till I have my dream smallholding...

Some of my seeds are rare, as in not easily available here, and for next year those will be grown as multiples, as part of a local seed circle I will be running.

PS Just seen your other post. Sounds a really nice idea. There's a chance I can borrow another bed next year and if that happens I'll definitely be in touch.

[nellie-m]

Fingers crossed, sparrow!

For those who wonder why multiples are better, and just how many plants to grow for which sort of vegetable, there's this wonderful free guide by the Organic Seed Alliance that markc kindly posted a while ago, and which I find very valuable. Near the end there is a very useful table stating which vegetable is primarily inbreeding, primarily outbreeding etc, and what number of plants is recommended to save from (which usually means you should grow a few more so you can take out any "rogues").

Here's that link again. Enjoy

http://www.seedalliance.org/uploads/...ving_Guide.pdf

[Alison]

For those who wonder why multiples are better, and just how many plants to grow for which sort of vegetable, there's this wonderful free guide by the Organic Seed Alliance that markc kindly posted a while ago, and which I find very valuable. Near the end there is a very useful table stating which vegetable is primarily inbreeding, primarily outbreeding etc, and what number of plants is recommended to save from (which usually means you should grow a few more so you can take out any "rogues").

Here's that link again. Enjoy

http://www.seedalliance.org/uploads/...ving_Guide.pdf

I have a very good seed saving book which gives good advice on this too, find it very interesting. Bathe book is the Sue Stirkland one, can highly recommend it.