Plot Rotation & Groups

[PeaPodius]

Hello

Firstly I apologise if this has already been answered somewhere on this wonderful forum.
I have a question about plot rotations and more so, the groups in which fruit and veg are placed. I am aware of the Legumes, Roots and Brassicas groups.

But I'm a little confused and very new to this.
For example: on the BBC website it advises to plant accordingly and rotate each year:

• Group one - Potatoes, beetroot, carrots, chicory, artichokes, parsnips and salsify
• Group two - Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, swede and turnips
• Group three - Peas, all types of beans
• Group four - All other vegetables and salad crops

But elsewhere I have seen suggestion that onions and leeks (which aren't mentioned in the above excerpt) can be grown with potatoes etc. This made the most sense to me as I assumed onions could fall into the "Root" group

Furthermore I have seen another suggestion that onions can be grown with veg from the Legume group.

I just wanted some advice and some clarity really on what would work best.

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A couple of other questions also:
Can lettuce be in a permanent bed? What group does it fall into?
I have a few 8ft x 4ft raised beds. In order to practice rotation, would I be able to plant 2 groups in one bed? (such as potatoes in one half of the bed and legumes or brassicas in the other half - Would that still count?)

Many thanks.

[Guest]

Unfortunately the more you look into rotation the more confusing and conflicting it gets. I do four bed rotation, similar to above with group four as alliums and curcurbits. In regards to artichokes (wether jerry, chinese or globe) they are in there own bed. Salad crops I tend to treat as a filler plant as and where there is space and I do get odd squash plants that float around. I am not strict about it, I just aim for the bulk to be where it should

[Mark Lottie]

Onions/alliums dont do well with beans (or that might be the other way round) so keep them apart.

Apart from that it seems like a good system.

I dont see why you should have to rotate leaf crops like salad so you could just have a permanent bed. Also as Norfolk says they are a good intercrop between sowings as you can eat them anytime young.

In general the idea is not to plant the same thing in the same bed in a 3-5 year period, so just make a note of where everything is this year, and move it round next year

[PeaPodius]

Thanks very much

[Jungle Jane]

Some companion planting is helpful when crop rotating eg keep tomatoes away from potatoes-both suffer blight,but basil with tomatoes is good as it deters aphids. Parsnip with carrot can be a big attraction for carrot fly. I've read that lettuce should be kept away from cabbage-deterrent to growth & flavour? Lettuce can fit in anywhere but I wouldn't have it in the same place every year,some pests will keep an eye out for it,knowing where to breed to be near it. Onions can confuse carrot fly & vice versa so you can mix them together. I think corn & tomato attract the same pest too,so keep them apart when planting. I draw out a plan for my garden so I know where to put it all.

[Kristen]

I have a few 8ft x 4ft raised beds. In order to practice rotation, would I be able to plant 2 groups in one bed? (such as potatoes in one half of the bed and legumes or brassicas in the other half - Would that still count?)

You could certainly have half-a-bed as Group One and the other half as Group Two and include the half-beds in your "rotation" next year. There doesn't have to be a physical barrier / gap, although in the case of soil boil diseases it certainly helps. But you first have to "catch" a soil borne disease, and they aren't that common (more common on an allotment were such diseases can easily be spread about, sadly).

Rotating helps:

Kill diseases, because the follow-on crops for the next, say, 3 years are from different families, and the diseases cannot establish a foothold

Varies the nutrient requirements. Peas and Beans put Nitrogen back into the soil, Cabbage etc. want lots of Nitrogen, so follow next year. But in general varying the crops, year to year, varies the nutrient requirements and allows the soil to recover, compared to mono-cropping a single variety in the same soil each year. (Some things don't mind though ...)

Helps with cultivation. For example no manure on the Carrot / Parsnip bed. Easier if they are in the same bed.

Bigger problems you will probably encounter are:

Over winter crop is in the way of Summer crop / cultivation. For example Broad beans (sown early) trying to follow Garlic (over wintering)

Cropping areas. For me Cabbages etc. take up far more room (twice as much) as anything else, so I can't manage with 4 equal sized beds. I solve that by having two sets of 4 beds. The first 4 are conventional 4-year crop rotation, including Cabbages, and then I have an extra Cabbages bed in the section section together with potatoes (which I don't have in the main 4-beds at all), Sweetcorn and cut flowers.

I reckon, though, at 8' x 4' you won't have enough room for two groups. Things in the Cabbage family take up a lot of space - typically planted 2' - 2' 6" apart in each direction. Spuds need several plants, you won't get many in an 8' x 4' bed, let alone half that bed.

You could look at Square Foot Gardening, if you need to cram the maximum plants into a small space, but for me the key is to grow enough produce for a meal. For example one courgette plant isn;t much use because although they are very prolific they only produce one harvestable-size fruit at a time, and I can't make a side-dish for a family of 4 with one Courgette! so I have 6 plants, and sometimes during the week we don't want 6 courgettes every other day ... but at weekends when we are have a BBQ with friends we have enough to feed them all ...

... so I would be very wary of growing too few of anything.

Assuming you are new to this?? then I would suggest:

Grow only what you know you will like to eat. Any failure for something you don't even like will be doubly disappointing as a Newbie.
Grow things that are expensive in the shops (1st early new potatoes maybe, skip maincrop. Raspberries maybe?).
Grow things that re productive for unit area (Runner beans, courgettes)
Grow things with outstanding flavour if picked fresh (Sweetcorn, cannot get that flavour from the shops - 2 days travelling is too long, and the sugar has already started turning to starch by the time you get them home. Sweetcorn is a low-yield crop, per unit area, though).

[Bohobumble]

There's no right answer, lots of people are trying lots of different things for different reasons.

The essence is, rotating crops to counter pest and disease build up, soil nutrient depletion of certain families, and growing plants with similar (or complimentary needs) together. Basically so you don't keep growing these families in the same patch year after year:
Solanaceae
Umbeliferae
Brassicas
Legumes

I found this site useful: Soil Association : Crop rotations

I use the section of the bottom of this page as a guide: Example of a Four-bed Rotation except that I have extended it to a 5 year rotation as I was struggling with space/timings to fit my onion family in so they get a bed to themselves.

I have also had success with the Three Sisters technique: Corn, Beans, Squash - A Native American tradition Carol Klein is also an advocate. Essentially I have included sweetcorn and squash in the legume rotation.

I am going to try a little more companion planting this year so complimentary crops and herbs will be dotted around so long as the family they come from doesn't risk pest and disease specific to that family building up in the soil part way through the rotation risking the main 'family' rotation's crop.

Perhaps not the 'correct way' and there may be folk on here thinking I am doing it wrong, but it's working for me.

My advice; pick a 'technique' that makes sense to you when you read it, try it out and adapt it in the subsequent years if something isn't working for you/the soil you are in, or a new idea comes your way that might fit into your plan