A rethink / crop rotation - Suggestions needed

[Shumba]

So .. my plans this year kinda failed.
Pinto beans truly terribly, 5% survived planting and only one climbed the pole just last week!
I’m getting a lot of rust even on the lawn! So leeks are out.
My kale grows well, but covered in bugs and a pain to clean + very stringy.
Even the potatoes have been struggling in the clay here. The sun came out and I couldn’t get water to penetrate!!
Only thing I think worth trying for again is potatoes as they are a staple.

What has done better than expected are onions and chards that I had in smaller patches!
Both of these I plan to grow in better numbers.

So replanting, possibly a little early! X3 But have been struggling with the crop rotation and choices.

Making potatoes and onions work I’ve come up with,
Radish > Potatoes > Kale > Onions > Radish
Though this still involves a lot of kale and.. radish.
Apparently you can also do
Radish > Onion > Radish
That leaves me to work out potatoes with something else if that helps \o.o/ probably not!

What’s with radish though? I don’t know anything about it, never really eaten it!
I only know of the one type in shops, it’s red, small and almost seems a bit pointless to grow. Please enlighten me, is it worth it is it a strong grower?

I would like to fit in onion to replace leek and chards to replace the kale.
Problem is, chards(beets) don’t rotate well with anything unless it’s after leek or some kind of bean (unsuitable/no interest). Also potatoes and onions are not too good after it.

So yeah really would like some suggestions here, especially with the heavy clay this is becoming a bit of a headache. Something strong growing/with good weed control would also be a huge bonus… endless grass, clover and other hard to remove things…

One random probably silly idea, any clue what dandelions rotate with? The flowers are what I’m after haha!

I’m open minded to anything so long as I can eat it and I like the taste! So don’t even think about turnips!
Thanks =D

[veggiechicken]

Radish is a catch crop, its a brassica, same as kale. Its not something that forms part of a rotation plan because its so fast maturing (in theory).
If you'e never eaten a radish, and they seem pointless - why include them in your plan?

[Guest]

So .. my plans this year kinda failed.
Pinto beans truly terribly, 5% survived planting and only one climbed the pole just last week!
I’m getting a lot of rust even on the lawn! So leeks are out.
My kale grows well, but covered in bugs and a pain to clean + very stringy.
Even the potatoes have been struggling in the clay here. The sun came out and I couldn’t get water to penetrate!!

Do other beans not interest you? Sometimes it is worth trying things for 2 to 3 years before ruling them out so you get a better idea of performance.
In regards to leeks- what variety did you try? is it worth considering more rust resistant varieties (still no guarantee I know but must at least be worth a try if your heart can take it)
I would net your kale (use ole scaffold/debris netting hang over some blue pipe)
There are several grapes who are well versed on clay soil, the only thing that springs to my mind is organic matter, mulch and patience.

But have been struggling with the crop rotation and choices.

Making potatoes and onions work I’ve come up with,
Radish > Potatoes > Kale > Onions > Radish
Though this still involves a lot of kale and.. radish.
Apparently you can also do
Radish > Onion > Radish
That leaves me to work out potatoes with something else if that helps \o.o/ probably not!

What is your plot layout? I work on a four bed system - roots- p+b- brassicas- alliums, so for you spuds+chard -pinto beans - kale, radish - onions, leeks. Rotation is not the be all and end all just aim not to grow things in the same spot for to long or if you have know issues for certain crops.

What’s with radish though? I don’t know anything about it, never really eaten it!
I only know of the one type in shops, it’s red, small and almost seems a bit pointless to grow. Please enlighten me, is it worth it is it a strong grower?

I would like to fit in onion to replace leek and chards to replace the kale.
Problem is, chards(beets) don’t rotate well with anything unless it’s after leek or some kind of bean (unsuitable/no interest). Also potatoes and onions are not too good after it.

So yeah really would like some suggestions here, especially with the heavy clay this is becoming a bit of a headache. Something strong growing/with good weed control would also be a huge bonus… endless grass, clover and other hard to remove things…
Thanks =D

You get the radish you know of which is a quick crop, used to mark seeds of slow crops and unless you like them there isn't any other real reason to grow them. You can also get winter radish i.e. mooli, black Spanish etc.
In regards to weed control cardboard and mulches and getting things to grow. Are courgettes and squash of any interest they will keep weeds down and can be slotted into anywhere in the rotation.

I hope there was some helpful in that

[SusieG]

I too am suggesting courgettes/squash (if you like 'em..!!!) for ground cover - both prolific growers, massive leaves and in my sparse experience, fairly easy to grow/maintain ....

I've got butternut squash, pumpkins, courgette, tromboncino (climbing up a frame) - all growing really well, so could be worth a try for you....? ( I have clay soil, but had new raised beds and some top soil to fill them, also lots of home made compost added and it's easier to manage now...)

[CaraFlower]

I think the first step of deciding what to grow is to establish what you like to eat and work from there.

Then work out how many areas you have - needn't be formal or the same each year, but it helps with the rotation if you have some seperation and an idea of what has grown where.

Once you know what space you have, you can prioritise what to grow (I don't think I will grow maincrop potatoes for example since 1, blight., 2, cheap to buy)

Then, split these things according to their type and what they grow well with. Usual groupings are brassicas, roots and onions, potatoes, peas and beans, other stuff (in my case courgettes, sweetcorn)

Clay can be improved by digging stuff in. I have raised beds and dig as well as pile stuff on the top. I'm also experimenting with 'clay breaker'.

So, what do you and your family like to eat?

[happyhumph]

I also have clay and the main thing is dig in as much well rotted organic matter as you can & keep doing it every year. Clay actually has lots of minerals locked up and needs humus (not houmous! ) to make it available - hence the need for compost. Also improves the soil structure.

Crop rotation as already said is useful but the main thing is not to grow the same thing in the se place each year to avoid build up of pests and diseases, & avoid depletING the soil of nutrients.

Grow what you like! If not keen on beans try mangetout or peas. I grow stuff that's either expensive to buy, can't be bought, or is just really easy.....

[Shumba]

Type, type, type.. .new posts .. type some more… and again.. Dam I’m slow! lol

Ok.. radishes came about as the site I was looking at had them in their crop rotation table with everything else.

Beans and peas have never really done much for me, pinto beans were picked for being dry beans I could store sort of thing, there also one of the better ones to eat I think. But I wasn’t overly bothered with them lol.

Leeks are Musselburgh, there were easily available at the time I do not know how resistant they are. There not dead or severely infected, but the spotting has not stopped and I keep removing bits to slow/stop the spread. The garlic got it initially. The onions (from seed) are Ailsa Craig that have no orange spots yet though do have light flex in areas where they are closer to the other rusty plants.
The only reason for leeks was that they fitted better into my original crop rotation planning, honestly I’d prefer to try and get onions growing and harvesting for as much of the year as possible ending with a very good storage onion to last me over the winter.

Grapes are an interesting thought! Do they do well in the UK?

As to the plot a little more detail.
Normally gets good sun but can catch the wind for being in the middle of the lawn. Down side is the clay baked hard when we got the 30C heat and the water was just gushing off out making puddles in other places – thus unhappy potatoes. You can also expect flooding!
All 4 section together are about 300x630cm (10x21ft) with a sunken path going long ways up the middle to aid winter drainage.
1|2
3|4
1: Kale
2: One row of chards, some onions and a handful of leeks left since they got slugged to death lol!!
3: Potatoes
4: Basically turned back into grass haha!.. I’m gona regret that. 4-5 beans in the weed free area if there even worth mentioning!
Garlic was mixed in sections 1 2 and 3 as slug defence.
Sections 1 and 2 have a wall foundation hidden under the surface so there will be a bare patch if potatoes ever go there.

Mooli sounds creepy, I think I may have seen them in the shops so ill try one

Courgettes sound like a very good plan I do like them! But never grown them before. Can you get an all year round crop? Squash as well, especially if they store well.

Soil improvements and raised beds. I’m dreaming..
Honestly I literally can’t afford it, a considerable added kick to make me grow my own though there are other reasons such as its fun and probably better than the supermarket rubbish! But I’m terrible for procrastinating so a kick was probably needed. I reuse everything already – junk mail makes great pots for seedlings. My biggest issue here is defiantly soil as the garden will hold surface water in the winter or if there is heavy rain so everything really needs to be raised. I already added many bags of sand to this one plot last year when I started in attempts to improve drainage and have a sunken path down the middle, and a ditch to one side that drains out into a trench cut into the lawn lol! This has so far worked but the wetter season is yet to come! It also means if I make a hole and fill it with compost and a plant, that hold will act as a water trap. Considerably frustrating! I was quiet lucky to get enough free soil to fill the greenhouse (that cost me the time of dismantling it) and a small razed bed for skirret.
Also worth a note the compost heap simply isn’t ready yet.
In short I have to work with what I got.

As for family I’m on me own.

Mmmm potatoes, they feel a lot more expensive when it’s a 30 minute walk back from the shop, but yeah good point! Yet it is handy to have them in the garden.


That was long..
So, courgettes and squash ?

[happyhumph]

Bit late for courgettes / squash now, you might find a few plants left but they'd have a lot of catching up to do - one for next year. Def worth it though as they keep on coming.

Get as much stuff composting as possible as soon as possible - your veg will thank you for it next year. Sounds like you have real problems with the clay - organic matter really is the way to sort this out but it will take a bit of time.

Don't be disheartened though! Main things are - improve your soil, doesn't have to cost a lot/anything.

Think about what you want to grow & go from there. Don't grow something just because it's in a crop rotation plan! I barely bother with brassicas as they get eaten but not by me (although they're starting to creep back in....)

[SusieG]

What about growing some 'green manures' over winter in any spaces that you have bare: then just chop them down, dig 'em in a few weeks before you decide what you're sowing/planting - it'll keep weeds at bay and improve your clay soil..??!!

[Shumba]

Heh my compost heap is basically teabags and potato peelings XD from time to time it gets a mountain of grass on top! I tend to let the grass grow then dump a lot on all at once to get it nice and hot to kill seeds, bugs, whatever. Oh and leaves from the trees to add to it as well when they drop. I’m not very good at generating waste in the kitchen lol! Honestly I have a party when I manage to fill a bin bag X3.
I also do bits of wood separately, branch comes down or I trim a tree I pick out the big bits then it fun times with the lawnmower! .. I should probably try to find a chipper. These I’m helping with a healthy dose of golden rain.

My plans were more focused on what I thought I could grow a good amount of and possible store. Potatoes, dry beans and onions. But I wanted to keep the soil good thus I switched from onions into leek. The kale.. that was a bad choice, I went there cos healthy! Chards are just fun!

Green manure, not something I had thought of or heard too much about. Ill do a little digging around I guess!

Can anyone recommend some suitable varieties of courgettes to try?

[SusieG]

Think my courgettes were 'black beauty'..? They've done really well for me this year. I started them off in GH - had to give some plants away as they all germinated.... And have found that 3 plants and the yield they've given me, is one plant too many..!!
Other folk may have other suggestions for you ... think it's a bit late to start now (but may be able to pick up a bargain plant at GC?? Maybe?)

Hope you can plan what you want for next season - don't let it be a bind tho' - enjoy your growing - successes and failures ...!
I always thought I should be growing the 'traditional' stuff: cabbages, carrots etc etc but what's the point if you don't eat them...? I like to try some new things, if I like them I'll grow them again, if not, well lesson learned!!

Tomatoes and chillis being my most fave things (at the moment...!!! )

Good luck!

[veggiechicken]

I add shredded paper to the compost heap - all the junk mail, envelopes, newspaper etc. If its not glossy it goes in the bin, layered with "greens" like grass cuttings, leaves, prunings. The heap soon grows!

[Kirk]

I would head off and buy some cheap compost, somewhere like B&Q and a bag of Balast from Wicks and dig it into the clay that you have. Basically start altering the soil structure to your advantage.

Seems that radish are an option, but as I do nopt particularily like them I have never bothered. Another option appears to be something like turnip snowball - it is a small turnip, or you rip it out of the ground when small. So it is supposed to mature in a short time.

Plants for now seem to be the leafy green ones, some that will be eadible this year and it seems cabbage for eating in the spring.

Best to search round the assorted monthly sowing guides to see what may be an option. Usually carrots are mentioned but a row I planted about 3 weeks have done nothing, whereas when an earlier row went in a couple of months ago they literally sprang up. I can but assume it is the time of year and the shortening days.

Still think that soil improvement is likely to be a better option now and it gives you a little time to plan and to have ground ready for autumn planting of veg like garlic and onions. You can add compost etc as mentioned then look to look at things that overwinter.

[Snoop Puss]

Another vote for Black Beauty courgettes. But you'll have to wait till spring now to sow them.

Have you thought about buying in some winter brassica plug plants? If you like kale, you might find they'd do OK where you've taken your onions out. Caulis and cabbages should do well on clay soil.

[happyhumph]

I like courgette zephyr - tastes good, always prolific for me, & being yellow it's easier to spot hiding under those big leaves!

I like turks turban squash, but quite a big fruit. As it's just for you, might be better choosing a smaller fruiting variety so don't end up with chopped up bits of squash hanging about in the fridge!