I want my soil back aka separating roots from soil

[jonahjonah]

Hi all,

I'm back from two weeks in California, wondering why you decided to keep the winter theme instead of moving on to spring. The good news is I have plenty of plot prep to keep me busy before planting outside becomes an option.

My plot was cultivated once but has been overgrown for a couple of years. I'm trying to remove the roots/bulbs/rhizomes/etc of weeds and ornamentals that have gone out of control. My soil is heavy clay. It's almost impossible for me to dig when baked dry and very, very clingy when wet. I have been turning the plot with a fork and weeding by hand. I am losing a lot of soil that I cannot remove from the tangles of roots. I have tried turning over clumps and getting the weather to do some of my work, but the soil cannot simply wash out of most of the clumps. The wet/damp soil simply squishes and clumps if I try to knock the dirt loose with hand/spade. The fine roots trap the soil, usually around bulbs/rhizomes/etc that cannot be left in the ground. I don't have enough space to leave the clumps out for longer than the time necessary to clear an area. Right now I'm bagging up the intractable clumps and hauling them off, but this feels like a waste and it's quite difficult as we don't own a car.

Does anyone have a recommendation on how to recover more of the soil? Can I drown the rhizomes etc that are in the clumps of soil?

Thanks!

[nickdub]

There are a few different possibilities. Some people use tubs of water to as you say drown the weed roots (does get v smelly). I've set up wire nets on poles before, a bit like wide hammocks, and dried the soil/root mixture out over the course of several months. You can also get good results by covering an area with cardboard or old carpet and using the lack of light to kill the weeds underneath - this usually takes a bit longer to clear an area, but has the advantage of generally being less work.

As an aside with your soil obviously if you can get some outside source of humus such a lawn mowings or stable manure in large quantities this will help a lot to improve the soil structure.

[Snoop Puss]

I have the same problem. I'm bunging most of my weeds with lots of soil clinging to them in the compost bin, soil and all. Things like couch grass roots and anything with a lot of seeds, I'm just ditching in a pile and leaving to dry and die. Couch grass will probably take forever! Do you have space where you could start a compost pile/bin?

Drowning will kill things eventually and although you'll be able to recover the soil, it'll not have the same crumb afterwards.

[jonahjonah]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been drowning some weeds and we have a compost heap for things that won't plague us into the future. My current composting success is low, though I think I'm making a better attempt this year than last. I am also working in some organic matter as I go. I've had the plot since last summer (after the prime growing season), so I'm too impatient to cover the areas with plastic. This attitude is likely to change when it's suddenly spring and I've got loads left to dig. Perhaps a separate heap for the root/dirt clods that can be covered in cardboard and plastic for a year or so?

[Snoop Puss]

^Sounds like a plan.

[veggiechicken]

I do the dry and die thingy.
Spread out the weed on a piece of black plastic (opened compost bag inside out) on a path and leave to bake in the hot sun - which you've brought back from California, of course!
Keep turning the roots as they dry to shake off the soil.
OR the lazy way, pile them up somewhere out of the way and, every time you go past the heap, rake and turn it to stop anything rerooting. Gradually the weeds die and you can consign the lot to a rubbish heap/bonfire.

[jonahjonah]

hot sun - which you've brought back from California, of course!

I'd better check on that lost luggage.

Sounds like I'll make and cover a big lump, which I occasionally poke until it releases my soil. More fun than wheelbarrowing tattered green waste bags full of sodden root/soil clods into a rented vehicle and going to the tip.

[veggiechicken]

Could you reroute your luggage to South Wales please? My sun has gone AWOL.

Personally, I like mini-piles, scattered about, usually on the corners of beds or the paths (woodchip). I roam around, rake in hand, turning the piles and moving them to another spot. This leaves the soil behind and I don't need to gather it up.
With each move, the weed heap shrinks until I can move all the mini-heaps together into one big shrivelled heap.
As you can tell, I enjoy playing with weeds.

[jonahjonah]

Smaller lumps sound like a good plan. Also means no lugging of bags around the plot. I think there will be some gleeful cackling upon regaining my derooted soil.

[Greenleaves]

You can also get good results by covering an area with cardboard or old carpet

Please never old carpet...most allotment sites have forbidden it's use for the fear of leaching but it's also a PITA to have to dig it out if someone leaves it

[nickdub]

I should have specified natural-fiber carpet, which breaks down OK - the nylon type stuff is a PITA.

[TrixC]

When clearing my allotment, also heavy clay, I used the method recommended by Charles Dowding. First cover the soil in a thick layer of mulch (manure, compost, straw, mown grass etc) then cover that with overlapping sheets of cardboard, weighted down by stones or bricks. Later in the season you’ll be able to plant through the cardboard. I’ve successfully dealt with couch grass this way.

[jonahjonah]

I don't mind the digging and I've been finding all sorts of treats left behind by the prior tenant. I do like what I've read about Charles Dowding's methods, however. I will keep it in mind for any areas that I run out of digging steam for. Thanks!

[Muddy_Boots]

I don't try and get the soil off the roots of weeds instead I do what my dad taught me to do, its worked well and I employ it everytime and I did this last year on my plot 2 and will be doing it this year for plot 3.

What is it you may be asking ....

First employ thick black plastic to weaken or kill the weeds after strimming/brush cutting the weeds down to soil level, I use the thick plastic sold to cover farm silage.

1. If you haven't time to wait 2-3 weeks then start by digging a trench along the first row and transporting the sods in a barrow to the other end of where you are digging and dump them there for later.
2. Next cut the next row behind the first and turn the sods over into the trench of the first row so the weeds are at the bottom, soil and roots at the top so you now have another empty trench (remove any obvious roots you can see).
3. Continue doing this all the way down the plot until you dig the last row leaving a trench.
4. Fill in the trench with the sods from the first row, you will now have a plot thats roughly dug and no weeds to be seen just the occasional root if possible.
5. After about 3 weeks the buried weed tops will of died and rotted into the soil, start forking the dug area again or use a rotavator/tiller to bring the weed roots to the surface.
6. Start planting.

I will be demonstrating this when I am finally able to start digging plot 3 with photos in my other thread in the Allotment Advice part of this forum.

[rary]

Muddy Boots is describing what I would call trenching, though with your garden I would double dig, if you don't have enough material for the no dig method, which to do properly takes quite a lot of material, to double dig, the top spit,(the top soil to a spade depth) of the first two rows are removed, you then spread manure along the trench and dig it in, if you do not have any material to dig in simply dig the bottom layer to loosen it (don't mix your top soil layer with the bottom layer)turn your next two spits on top of the trench, any weeds that you have you can put into your new trench and dig them in, this procedure is continued till your bed is completely turned over where you add the first two spits removed are added to you last trench, this is heavy work but you will improve the condition of your soil through improved drainage, and if you have any weed free compost dig this in to the top layer as you go along, with that I am thinking more about local council recycled waste, which would be ideal for helping open up your clay