Good news about battery hens

[milliebecks]

All food prices are artificially kept low by the supermarkets. They rely on economies of scale to keep prices down, but will still buy cheaper imports if it increases their profits.
I might be cynical, but for all the increased emphasis on ethical products in the big supermarkets, their bottom line will always be profit. So, it's up to us - the consumers.
Trouble is, we are used to the convenience and cheap prices - I struggle to convince my OH that I'd rather pay for an organic free range chicken but eat it less often - especially when it's going in a curry or something.

[PAULW]

That's no reason for us not to do it; UK should set an example.
TWO SHEDS
I agree but how can you control and set an example by banning the very thing you want to improve, thats like making everyone a better driver by banning cars. Look at the chicken imported in from the far east do you really think the have the same welfare standards as this country, would it not be better to show the way and improve the battery system if we have to have one rather than wash your hands like Pilate.

[Alison]

That's no reason for us not to do it; UK should set an example.
TWO SHEDS
I agree but how can you control and set an example by banning the very thing you want to improve, thats like making everyone a better driver by banning cars. Look at the chicken imported in from the far east do you really think the have the same welfare standards as this country, would it not be better to show the way and improve the battery system if we have to have one rather than wash your hands like Pilate.

We're not talking about not eating eggs here, surely we're discussing not getting ones that have been laid in a very unpleasant environment. We set the example by buying ethically produced, free range or organic eggs. Simple. There is no good battery system therefore we should never support it.

[PAULW]

ALISON
In 2006, sales volumes are expected to reach 5 billion eggs – 1.8% more than in 2004, while value is expected to be in the region of £526 million – an increase of 5.4% over the same period.

Consumer usage of eggs is widespread, but faced with a constantly expanding array of alternative convenience foods, marketers need to raise the frequency of consumption by ensuring that the profile of eggs is maintained.

This is a lot of eggs and I think you will agree the order is not going to be filled by people with half a dozen hens in thier back garden, as previously stated I agree that the battery systen is not the most ethical method but is the barn system really that much of an improvement.

[jonny_s_p]

ALISON

In 2006, sales volumes are expected to reach 5 billion eggs........

This is a lot of eggs and I think you will agree the order is not going to be filled by people with half a dozen hens in their back garden.......

Paul,

In the UK there are approximately 60 million people.

If 1 in 100 of these people kept 6 chickens. That is 600,000 * 6 chickens = 3.6 million birds. I get 5 eggs from 6 birds a day. That equals 3 million eggs a day or just over a billion a year. Hey presto that is 20% with a poultry (sorry ) 1 in 100.

If only we could cut our CO2 emissions by a similar 20% by keeping a few chickens.

Every journey starts with the first step.

Cheers

John

[Alison]

Thanks Jonny, much better put than I could have done. I personally don't keep chooks (not enough room and a mum who has a bird phobia - don't ask!) but buy them locally from a farm, this is a larger scale operation than Jonny is referring to but they are still kept perfectly well and have a good life. Much better than battery or barn eggs would ever be.

[PAULW]

JONNY
What is the saying, something like
IF wishes were horses tramps wouldn't have to walk

Nice dream but not really a practical solution you know as well as everybody else the only solution big business will take is to import from the cheapest source with no care of the welfare because they cannot see where the product is aquired from therefore it will not affect them, It was not that many months ago that it was reported the imported eggs from spain were carrying salmonella, all eggs in this country with the lion mark are from salmonella free flocks why the double standard in the EU.

[Birdie Wife]

I think you're right Paul, to an extent, the supermarkets look at what will get them the most profit for the least expense and that means buying in eggs from cheapest source. However, many supermarkets have cottoned onto ethical consumerism and at least give us a choice. It's up to us as consumers to make a noise about what we actually want on the shelves - and it does work, but we need to keep at it. If people are buying eggs from Spain, it's up to them - and if that's what we buy then that's what they'll stock. The thing to watch is when eggs are advertised as "free-range" or "barn raised" for example - but often that doesn't mean what we think it means. It's up to us to be educated about what goes in our own baskets, and it's up to the supermarkets to provide that information in order that we can have an informed choice.

[PAULW]

BIRDYS WIFE

Totally agree with everything you said, where you have a choice you can make a differance the eggs from spain were destined for the cake and biscuit makers, ready meals and hospitals these people only think about cost and profit not ethics.

[PAULW]

FoodProductionDaily.com is going to Waterside Park in the UK tomorrow to find out why convenience food manufacturer Fresh-Pak Foods has invested £7.5 million in a new 35,000 sq ft egg mayonnaise facility.

The capacity of the new facility, which took a year to design and build, is certainly staggering. Over 4 million eggs are processed each week, and the company has plans to expand production. Phase two, which will involve a further 15,000 sq ft fit out, is planned to be operational by the end of this year.

JONNY That shoots your idea up the butt your a million eggs short for this plant then there are the supermarkets to supply.

[Two_Sheds]

PaulW,
I'm still being dense. Could you, succinctly (its been a long day) state your point? What should I buy?
At the moment I suspect I am not understanding you correctly...are you saying there's no point in being ethical myself, because the supermarkets are not?
Are you saying that it doesn't matter how food is produced as long as it's cheap?
Again, not being facetious, I'm just tired and confuddled.

[jonny_s_p]

PaulW,

I never said people with half a dozen eggs in their back gardens could supply industry with all their egg needs.

However by making a choice about keeping eggs and/or only buying free range everybody in the UK can shape the way producers think.

We have been too interested in quantity over quality and a lot of animals have suffered. How can you buy a chicken for £1.98 in Asda as I saw recently?

You seem to be saying that there is no point buying free range as industry use too many and there is no way round that. To use a silly example: They used to put children up chimneys because it was cheap. Guess what happened when they banned that? They invented the brush.

Industry faces problems like this all the time - and solves them. lets lead the way. And as was stated earlier education will work, especially if combined with a gentle nudge of banning battery farming.

A serious question. Are you a battery hen farmer?

Cheers,

Jonny

[Seahorse]

It's up to us as consumers to make a noise about what we actually want on the shelves - and it does work, but we need to keep at it.

Yes! I don't presume that I (or anyone else) can take on the might of the economic market and make everything fluffy and nice tomorrow but I totally object to both 'why bother?' and 'lets be rubbish but not quite as bad as {X}'

As an example of consumer power, a few months ago Mars announced they were to resume using animal products in their confectionary. Thanks to an email campaign, the proposal was swiftly withdrawn.

Of course there will always be people who simply don't care, or who for income reasons have to buy whatever is cheapest but surely that's no reason for the rest of us not to stand up and be counted!

Claire

[PAULW]

TWO SHEDS
My point is all this self righteous back slapping that just because you ban something in one country does not make this problem go away, yes you can make a differance to what the supermarkets sell if enough people buy brand A instead of brand B but there is a bigger picture to look at but the genie of cheap food and mass prodution has been let out of the bottle and it will be very difficult to put it back in.

JONNY
If it makes you feel better by buying free range eggs all well and good but you still have not improved the welfare of the birds in battery cages in spain or poland or thailand, now if you had come up with a humane battery system giving he birds room to stand up and flap their wing and still produced the same amount of egg you could go to the producers abroad and say this works you still make money and the birds are happy to my mind would be better in the long run than a total ban.
And no I am not a battery farmer and have not kept chickens for over 30 years (they were free range)

CLAIRE As above.

[milliebecks]

Seems you are a 'glass half empty' type of guy Paul W.
Not sure this is the forum for you. There are loads of us getting the bug for allotments and keeping a few chooks and there are loads of really good (not noble, just valid) reasons to do so. We're not trying to change the world, however much we'd like to, but we can live with ourselves, knowing we do what we can to make a difference. If that means supporting a ban - I'm up for it