Def not poo!

[Sue]

Hi
My bossy, bolshy hen Barbara was very quiet when I went to see them this morning, usually first in line for any hand-outs she was not doing her usual pogoing to get at the bag.
At lunch time she was standing along from the other two, closing her eyes with her feathers fluffed up, very worrying.
In the afternoon I took them a big tub of grass cuttings with dried mealworms and slugs mixed in - her absolute favourite thing and she just picked at it.
Then as I was sitting watching I saw her pass something that was def not poo. I went to have a look at it was pinky brown and looked like a squeezed out egg shell. Only had a quick look as Dorothy then ran off with it....urggh.

Before I left she had perked up and was doing the usual door racing up and down with the other two as I went to see them.

Was it eggshell do you think, and what went wrong. Poor Barbara, she must have had a very bad stomach ache to act like that.
Sue

[kirsty b]

Not a clue How is she today Sue?

[hedgie]

Hi Sue I have heard of eggs breaking inside the chickens - unfortunately it is very serious as they can end up with a nasty internal infection.
You may be lucky if she has passed the shell she may pass the rest - personally I would contact a vet to see if she can have precautionary anti-biotics. Good luck and sorry if I have worried you, but sometimes it is best to aware of risks etc.

[TPeers]

Might well have been a large egg and I'd speak to a vet - don't like the sound of the pink colour. There is a condition called prolapse which can cause problems of this sort.

On the up side you said that she perked shortly after passing the 'egg' so if she is ok today you could be over the worst.

Does she tend to lay large and/or double eggs?

[Polly Fouracre]

May have been a large soft-shelled egg. Did you find anything? Never be sqeamish about catching up a hen and having a good look if things seem a bit strange.

[Eyren]

Sounds like a softie to me - the looking a bit down beforehand is classic behaviour, and the deflated shell you described sounds exactly like a soft-shelled egg. Basically not enough calcium was laid down when the egg was in her shell gland, so it would have been harder to lay, hence looking like she had tummy ache.

I would get some calcium into her - ask at your usual feed supplier for limestone flour, and put a spoonful in with each batch of feed for a few days. In the longer run, make sure the hens have access to mixed grit (with oyster shell) or dried and crushed eggshells (you can use their own, after you've cooked the contents!), or put a tsp of poultry spice in their feed regularly. This time of year, when the days are getting longer, their egg-laying seems to speed up a bit and they need all the help they can get.

[Sue]

Hi everyone
Happy to report that Barbara is back to being her normal bolshy self and has laid a normal egg since her spot of bother.
I think it must have been the soft shell, but they certainly get enough calcium, they always have crushed egg shell which they always enjoy, grit has been on offer ever since they came and the pellets are supposed to be supplemented for strong eggshells. So - one of those things I suppose.
But it was good to see her doing her pogo dance again trying to get at the bag in my hand and go back to being the one leading the surge out the hen house door when I'm trying to get in!
Sue

[hedgie]

So glad Barbara is back to her normal chirpy self - one of mine didnt look too bright today and wasnt interested in the greens she usually loves.
She has done this once before tho and then been bright as a button next morning - with no obvious reason!! Chooks eh?!

[Sue]

Hedgie
I know! I suppose it's made worse because they're so good at hiding being ill and to cap it all I enquired at my vet re worming and they "don't do hens" so quite what I'm supposed to do with (God forbid) any ill chicken in future is anybodies guess.
Sue

[hedgie]

Finding a vet that is interested in hens is difficult - my vet is a bit of a funny character, he is brillant with the dog and cat, but clearly doesnt like the guinea pig! I havent asked him about chickens yet - altho I probably ought to rather than wait til I've got a problem.
But maybe they dont learn about hens at standard vet college?
Pheonix is bright as a button today - as I expected! I think she has a tendancy to get a bit crop bound. I am careful to give them grit and not much corn etc and the other 2 are fine - so who knows?!
By the way Vermx is a herbal wormer that you can buy from animal wholesalers - where you get their feed etc.

[Sue]

Hedgie
Finger's crossed re your vet! I've never quite forgiven mine for when I took my elderly cat in for an examination, he was 23 years old. The Vet took him in to the back surgery and then said he had escaped and was hissing. I followed him into the surgery and there was poor Spotty cowering under the examination table, meanwhile the Vet had donned elbow length canvas gloves.... I know they can't be too careful but even so, had to get under the table and rescued poor old Spotty myself. He'd never bitten anyone in his life and was on his last legs as the Vet well knew, oh well, the only other Vet is one right on the outskirts at the other end of town and really difficult to get to without a car so will ask about the Vermx, better to be prepared.

Can Vets actually refuse to treat an animal?? or was it just I was asking for medication they didn't keep as they don't have any hen customers?
Sue

[hedgie]

Hi Sue
So sorry to hear about your poor old cat - so much stress when she was so ill too.
It's a shame you havent got another vet you could try - I think vets are 'allowed' to refuse to treat an animal if it is a 'rare breed' that they dont have experiance with. Which is fair enough really if they dont know what they are doing, but they should be able to recomend a vet with the knowledge etc. Or if it is really aggressive it is their choice - most will if you warn them and help with safety measures etc!
Personally I find russian hamsters to be the most viscious breed!!
But chickens hardly fall in the 'rare breeds' catagory - I think you need a farm vet.
I used to work for an animal rescue and the vet we used was brillant and would turn his hand to any animal I brought in - altho they were all domestics pets.
When I had to call a vet out to two pot bellied pigs I was trying to rehome I had to use a farm vet.
Sadly I have moved 100 miles away from that lovely vet, but the one I have now is quite good and he is happy for me to tell him what I think the problem is before he diagnoses!! A lot of them dont like you interfering which is crazy as you know your pet best and can describe symtoms etc.

[Eyren]

Hedgie
I know! I suppose it's made worse because they're so good at hiding being ill and to cap it all I enquired at my vet re worming and they "don't do hens" so quite what I'm supposed to do with (God forbid) any ill chicken in future is anybodies guess.
Sue

I'm lucky to have a very good vet (she specialises in "exotics", i.e. birds and reptiles, and teaches at the university), but even so I haven't had much luck taking sick chickens to her. As you say, they are very good at hiding illness, so by the time you notice anything wrong it's often too late. The main time your vet can help is for things like respiratory infections, which can be treated with antibiotic injections as per any other animal - for anything else, the best thing to do is stock up on some basic medicines.

I keep the following to hand:

* Flubenvet (the only wormer licensed for poultry use in the UK) - kills intestinal and respiratory tract worms
* Red mite powder - does exactly what it says on the tin! (and smells nice, too)
* Diatomaceous Earth - good against lice - if your hens have a favourite place to dustbathe, you can just sprinkle some of this on the ground and they'll treat themselves
* AviPro - vitamin and probiotic powder, good for any stressed/convalescent animal (can also be given to cats and dogs)
* Unpasteurised cider vinegar (from a country store, not the supermarket!) - regulates gut pH and discourages worms, plus contains vitamins and minerals
* Citricidal - grapefruit seed extract, good for minor respiratory infections
* Tea tree oil - well-diluted, makes a good all-round antiseptic

All of these can be bought online for around £5-10 each - much cheaper than vets' bills!

(Another thing that's useful to have is a dosing syringe, for giving medicines or water to a hen that's not eating or drinking.)

[Birdie Wife]

I use Verm-X for worming, and as it's an effective herbal remedy you don't need to throw any eggs away after treating, which you do with some chemical remedies. They have a snazzy website, just do a quick Google! For serious cases I get Flubenvet from the vet, which comes in powdered and soluble form, depending on how you prefer to dose your chooks.

Your 'squished egg' sounds more like a meaty excretion to me - my hens have occasionally done the same thing - I think it's caused my cells coming away from the intestinal wall and binding together. As you say, very uncomfortable for the hen, but the good news is that it's unlikely to cause permanent damage and she can get back to laying lovely eggs for you very soon after.

[Sue]

Eyren
Thank you so much for your list of First Aid items, that's a really useful list to have, it will be printed out and stuck up in my shed! I shall get googling right away to stock up. No red mite yet (every finger crossed....) but you never know.

And Birdie wife, thankyou too, that sounds very likely and yes she is back to normal thank goodness, eggs everyday since. She was diving around like a mad thing today with the others (it was spaghetti, big favourite).

best wishes
Sue