Hens and Cheese

[jbalmer]

Well came home from work, shes in the coop again! coaxed out ate a bit of grape and mash and drank a bit of water with lifeguard and some limestone flour mixed in. Mooched about for a bit then back in the coop. Tail up a bit more. Fingers crossed

[Twinkle]

fingers crossed JB, and keep us posted.

Been interested in this thread because my 3 who were fine layers up until the time we penned them in (mix of indoor and outdoor pen, loads of space, grass and weeds) have all started laying softies.
Changed pellets today to some "Fancy Foods" ones (only 50c more than regular brand) AND bought limestone flour.

[Hashette]

Jo, what's going on with yours sounds an awful lot like what's happening with one of mine. Glad yours seems to be perking up a bit, keep us posted

[Two_Sheds]

•Tofu
•Rhubarb
•Collard greens
•Spinach
•Turnip greens
•Okra
•White beans
•Baked beans
•Broccoli
•Peas
•Brussel sprouts
•Sesame seeds
•Bok choy
•Almonds

Is A list of non-dairy calcium providing foods (usually for humans).

all vegan!
I'll keep this list for my FiL who thinks I don't get enough nutrients.

[bluemoon]

all vegan!
I'll keep this list for my FiL who thinks I don't get enough nutrients.

My vegan friend used to make a sort of 'milk' for her son from almonds when he was younger, because of the calcium (you can make smoothies from it too, very nutritious). He rebelled age 13 and now lives on pizza and burgers, but he was vegan from birth until then and was extremely healthy. Wonder why non veggies and vegans seem to 'worry' about the diets of those who are.

[jbalmer]

update - hen very sick on monday, spoke to vet he asked her to go to the vet every am for 3 days for a baytril injection. Day 3s injection was this AM so she has finished her course. Seems well now but still eggs with no shells (so she is eating them!). I am giving her porridge every am with limestone flour in but not any sign of a shell!. Can they continue laying no shell eggs and be well?

[Hilary B]

update - hen very sick on monday, spoke to vet he asked her to go to the vet every am for 3 days for a baytril injection. Day 3s injection was this AM so she has finished her course. Seems well now but still eggs with no shells (so she is eating them!). I am giving her porridge every am with limestone flour in but not any sign of a shell!. Can they continue laying no shell eggs and be well?

Laying shell-less eggs can make a hen feel ill, but it need not be a symptom of illness. The 'shell making' part of her egg laying system may be on strike, or she may be stressed (from being taken to see the vet as one possible reason).

[Bramble-Poultry]

One of the main reasons for laying soft eggs is down to lack of grit or calcium. Go to the pet shop and buy oyster grit and feed that as a suppliment to their feed. Sprinkle it on the floor and let then peck at it is fine.

Our turkeys occasionally lay a shell-less egg, and this is mainly due to getting a shock or a night fright. we get our shocks from RAF Shawbury as they tend to buzz our house with helicopters as we appear to be the turning point for the students! The only house in a surrounded by a 400 acre holding - you kind of stick out a bit!

One thing that is concerning me, is the list of foods and treats that pops up on this thread. I am by no means innocent at all, as i like to give a treat just like the next man however:

Do not give sardines - chickens do like a bit of protein granted, but DEFRA legislation prohibits the feeding of animal by products to poultry. Technically if you do, then the eggs are supposed to be excluded from the human food chain.

Also grapes, these are mildly toxic and in sufficient quantities can kill a bird. In fact, they are toxic to humans and dogs too, just we would need to gorge huge amounts to have an effect on us.

Go easy on the cheese - again its an animal by product and laden with fat which will cause problems for the birds.

I assume the vet checked for shell left in the vent etc so we could dispense with the iodea of peritonitis due to secondary infection, however, i assume that as she has had several does of antibiotics, you have been told to dispose of any eggs she lays for 28days? there may be traces of antibiotic in them.

[MaureenHall]

Bramble we've had loads of discussions on here about foods and feeding and DEFRA guidelines. I think the majority of us who cook "extras" like potatoes, pasta, porridge etc so we can feed them to our chooks have decided that as we're very small-time backyard chicken keepers DEFRA is talking out of its a**e. We haven't got separate kitchens where their food can be prepared and so yes, it could come in contact with food prepared for humans. I think the general consensus was that if we abide strictly to the rules, our chooks would have a really boring diet, even though it'd be a healthy one. Bending the rules sensibly a little hasn't (as far as I'm aware) caused any tragedies either to the chooks or to their human carers. Most of us who sell our surplus eggs to friends, neighbours and colleagues know our customers personally, and if they're anything like me will chat to the customer about what's gone into making those lovely eggs.

I'm not "having a go" at you personally, (I've met you and you seem a nice bloke ) and your input on here has been valuable and sensible - it's just DEFRA getting my hackles up

Right then, I'm off to cook some pasta for my girls and boys, and if there's any leftovers, I'll use it to make myself a pasta salad for my lunch

[bluemoon]

Mmm, we've had this 'DEFRA doesn't let you' point raised before. I think most of us came to the conclusion that the eggs were for our own consumption so what DEFRA doesn't know won't hurt them. Mine have raw mince on a regular basis and if a bird is free range how on earth are you going to stop them eating worms and slugs, which are technically animal by-products? Personally I wouldn't give sardines, but only because I don't fancy fishy tasting eggs.

EDIT: Mo types faster than me!

[Bramble-Poultry]

Unfortunatley we have to follow Defra guidelines as we are registered so our treats have to be within their rules - the strictest rules are for pigs - and DEFRA aren't that bad they are just trying to protect the food going into the food chain for our benefits, but I must admit some of their ideas are a little militarian and slightly strange! The one about animal by products is to prevent cross contamination, a lot of diseases that are carried by cows, fish etc ARE transferable to other animals such as chickens and giving raw products and animal products increases the risks - the contamination may not show in the bird but may be present in the egg.

Ours love pasta all except one of our old girls - she won't touch it fussy cow actually she won't touch anything. They get a few bread crusts and rice, weetabix and haven;t got time or inclination to list teh green foods they get - never tried porridge - give them the oats but never made up into porridge (don't know why just never entered my head!) - gonna have to try thay especially in the winter to go to bed on.

Fish really isn't a good idea because of egg taint and foods with too high a salt or fat content such as cheese - purely for their health benefit.

I think whatever you feed a chicken shoud not harm the bird or affect the egg.

Jennie (not Mike this time!)

[Bramble-Poultry]

as my good lady says above, we HAVE to conform to DEFRA's guidelines as we are registered with them, and they can come to our site at any point for a visit.

i agree that some of their requirements seem wrong and downright daft at times, but if you look hard (or even harder sometimes) you will find a nugget of scientific truth behind what they say.

Sorry if i offended anyone out there with my comments, i promise i will go back in my cage now!

[bluemoon]

That's fine if you are DEFRA registered, but most of us aren't, don't want to be and would reduce our flocks if we approached the magic 50, and we're just trying to raise a few healthy chickens which produce delicious eggs. For many of us keeping chickens and growing our own fruit and veg is a reaction against the myriad sins committed by the food industry over decades. After all, DEFRA still sanctions battery farms and it (or it's equivalent) allowed sheep brain-matter to be fed to cattle (herbivores) so, as far as I'm concerned, they're far from being irrefutably in the right; at least chickens are designed to be omnivorous. I always think it's suspicious when food is controlled in this way, after all who is going to benefit if the only treat I can give my chickens is mixed corn? Well the farmers who produce that mixed corn for a start, then the mill, then the distributor, then the retailer, the guy who drives the lorries, the company who provides the packaging, the petrochemical company who provides the fuel.... the only people who won't benefit are me and my chickens because I would have to pay for all that. When I talk of payment I'm not talking about just financial either, I'm talking about damage to the environment in the form of carbon emissions, Brazilian soya leading to deforestation and, probably the most insidious practice of the late 20th/early21st century, that of selling 'patented' (GM) seeds - and few chicken-feeds are GM-free these days, I had a real problem obtaining one that was when I first started to keep hens. - I suppose I'm a bit of an anarchist (I'll be having me phone tapped if I'm not careful), but it does seem strange that people are so easily manipulated via the food chain, after all have you ever wondered why every item (bar one) on the WHO's list of 'superfoods' happens to have the U.S. as A major or THE major producer? There's currently a book available which is a facsimile of one available during the war, called something like 'Feeding Chickens and Rabbits on Scraps', DEFRA have, naturally, condemned it, but if it was possible and acceptable then why not now? As far as I'm aware, and my mother was brought up on a smallholding through the war years and frequently urges me to buy less chicken-feed and use more of what I have to hand, there were few, if any, problems. - if you ever want a good laugh ask her about their 'secret' pig which, after much hassle and them having to organize a swill-collecting round after dark each night, did little other than ensure a good Christmas for the entire hamlet.
Sorry, the government's attempted control of the food chain makes me very cross and is one of my soap-boxes, I feel sorry for anyone today who is actually trying to make a decent living by supplying good quality, unadulterated and environmentally sound food, it must be virtually impossible. I'm not 'having a go' at the Brambles either, if you're registered then you have to comply, but I'd want more than a nugget of scientific fact behind any decision I was to act upon, for my sins I used to be a scientist and know that 'facts' can be manipulated and frequently are if there is money to be made or political power to be gained.

[Bramble-Poultry]

You stay on that soap box hun - and make loads of room for others - shout as loud as you can, maybe eventually all will be heard.

Our numbers spiralled out of control as I am a softie and just used to keep bringing home animals in a poor state instead of leaving them! A lot of our birds (well actually most of all of our animals) are rescues or rehomed from somewhere and the decision to Register was so I could keep rehoming animals. Our breeding crew only number around 25 so no need to register them!

You would all laugh if you came here and saw our motley crew of residents from the chickens to the hedgehogs.

I'm actually trained as a farm conservation advisor and the welfare of farm animals is a very very BIG bugbare of mine, but not as big as my bugbare for the mis information and propeganda pumped into our society - Take free range just beacuse a bird is labelled "free range" doesn't mean it has to ever have been outside - yet the asumption by people choosing free range eggs in the supermarket is that they have had lovely happy lives!!, and Organic - a fantastic buzzword banded around - I have seen plenty of Organic farms where I'd rather eat intensively reared animals because at least their basic welfare is met!! Now don't get me wrong these farms are the minority but they are there and consumers are buying their products in good faith.

But whilst the general mass of people wish to go to supermarkets and buy milk for £1 and 2 for £5 chickens then the way food is produced will not change so the more people who jump up there with you on your soap box the better - just make it a comfy box cos its a long haul!!

Bluemoon - to keep feed bills down have you tried approaching shops for their waste products - now supermarkets will tell you to "go away" (polite version) but some smaller local shops like our local bakers and veg shop will let you have the stuff they are throwing out, they have to pay to dispose of it and ours were quite open minded about me having a few things. Worth a try maybe

[Bramble-Poultry]

Should have signed that Jennie - not Mike - perhaps we need seperate accounts!!