Selling hens in poor condition

[RichmondHens]

That's the trouble with shows, you always see something you fancy ............ we were rather taken with the Tamworth/GOS pigs (planning for next spring)!

[Bramble-Poultry]

i tell you what though - saw those "pilkies" pekin x silkies .... £45 a trio! i have appenzeller x pekins "appenzekins" do you reckon i could get that kind of money for them too???

heres a piccy of my Appenzekin Cockerel! result of a fertility test and he isnt that bad looking - but £45 a trio? they must be having a laugh at the show!

[RichmondHens]

He looks very smart (although a trifle damp - was it a wet day by any chance?). Black and white markings are a classic aren't they? I agree £45 for a trio was a bit steep, and I do think chicken prices are getting silly. A breeder in south Norfolk was apparently last year asking £50 EACH for his POL Buff Orpingtons.

[Suechooks]

i tell you what though - saw those "pilkies" pekin x silkies .... £45 a trio! i have appenzeller x pekins "appenzekins" do you reckon i could get that kind of money for them too???

heres a piccy of my Appenzekin Cockerel! result of a fertility test and he isnt that bad looking - but £45 a trio? they must be having a laugh at the show!

People are charging £500+ for mongrel dogs and giving them smart names like labradoodle or spanador so why not!!!
Love the Shiba Inu as a breed btw! Used to show my Rough Collies but gave it up - too much mutual back scratching by judges for me!
There's an alpaca for sale in our local paper with cria at foot. Brown and white. On the Wirral I think.

[bluemoon]

We bought our hens from a huge poultry dealer, probably one of the largest in the country. And they are incredibly busy, what started as a bit of a side-line has turned into the major part of their farm's business. Our Rhodies came from a huge shed which must have contained 100 birds, half Rhodies and half Lt Sussex. They stock many different breeds, although most in smaller numbers than the Rhodies and Sussex, it's also where we got our Sussex/silkie crosses. All are bred there, then they also stock commercial hybrids, ducks, geese, pheasants..... The hens were mite-free, healthy and lively and my feeling is that if somewhere which is run on the lines of a family farm can manage to keep huge numbers of birds fit and well, without any sign of parasites, then everyone can and this problem Simon has encountered sounds to me like a case of terrible neglect. The problem is that there are so many novice chicken keepers around (myself included) who don't know what they are looking for and who are therefore more easily ripped off like this, with the unscrupulous just wanting to make what they see as fast, easy money.

As for weird breeds, I've just seen the chickens of my dreams for sale as hatching eggs on ebay, but I've never heard of them before, something like 'Green Legged Pheasant Fowl,' Apparently the native fowl of Poland. They are absolutely gorgeous. Why do you never have a broody when you need one?

[Birdie Wife]

If the hens have lice and scaley leg mite, then the seller needs to be reported, as the conditions are very infectious and the rest of the flock that he/she are selling are at risk too. I would agree with kirstyb that I would keep the hen and treat it myself, but the seller still needs to know there's a problem.

[di]

You say the shop claims to have no connection to them...have they actually allowed them to sell on their premises,or are they doing it illegally?
Maybe they could be reported not just for the neglect but also setting up an illegal selling place???(I'm not up on such things,so maybe I'm wrong?)
We were stopped by a "lady" in a white van in Asda carpark last weekend,asking if we wanted to buy a puppy!I'm sure Asda had no idea what she was doing,I'm also sure if she needs to be trailing around carparks with a van full of puppies & no sign of the parent dogs,she's got a bit to hide!?
Maybe next time you see these people ask them if there's any chance of visiting their premises to see the breeding flock before you commit to buy?

[SimonA]

The store allow them to sell from their premises. I don't know what the arrangement is, but you'd think they might be a bit more concerned about it than they appear to be.

[Bramble-Poultry]

Richmond - its always a wet day and they are always soggy!! think I know the breeder you mean - sounds like the one my sis rang wanting a splash cockerel! I wanted the GOSx tams but Jen said NO!!

We had the same conversation about labradoodles - when we were growing up they were mongrels and were usually free to good home as they were quite often mistakes, nothing wrong with a mongrel of any species as long as people do not try to pass it off as something its not!!

I will say though in defence of people with mites/lice etc - no matter how good you are you get them its just part of life - the trick is to not let it get out of control with good husbandary - we are constantly treating something or other here, it coems from having rescues they come in all sorts of states with all sorts of "things" thats why we quarantine everything! However I would not knowingly pass it on to someone else and I certainly wouldn't sell a bird who is not in a condition to be sold!

Sue - yes seen the mutual backscratching amongst the judges, its particulary bad with this breed as the main judge is also one of the main breeders in the UK - so guess which dogs always win even if they are the mankiest there!

[Polly Fouracre]

Bramble Poultry, we also show dogs (sighthounds) and know what you mean about judging the other end of the lead.
As to buying poultry, as with everything remember "Caveat Emptor" (Let the buyer beware) and look very hard at what you are buying.
Not easy, I know when you are thinking with your heart instead of your head and especially if what you are buying needs a bit of help!
We will all do it though!!

[RichmondHens]

Bramble - I didn't mean to be critical about your damp cockerel, sorry if you are offended. I feel sorry for you and everyone who has had ghastly wet weather this summer. We have been very lucky this side of the country and our soil is also very sandy and free draining, therefore no mud or puddles.

[Bramble-Poultry]

nooooooo - not offended - sorry did it sound like I was - i was trying to be sarcastic - perhaps i'll give that up!!

We really are very wet, we even flooded out last week - thankfully very little damage! Still its been a nice day, still soggy underfoot though - think it will need a few nice days to dry out - then suppose I will be moaning about having to water all the veg beds!!

[bluemoon]

Bramble, I know that lice and mites are a fact of life, I didn't mean to imply that anyone who had a problem was negligent and I'm sorry if it read like that. And I know that most people do their utmost to keep the problem under control even if it can't be completely eradicated. What Simon is describing however sounds far, far worse, it's as if the bird has never been treated or possibly even checked for mites and it certainly should never have been sold in that condition. It also sounds as if it has been kept in filthy conditions for a long time beforehand for it to reach that state. I have only had my chooks for a few months so I fortunately haven't faced the problem. I have always had a dog though and from time to time they've had fleas, which I've always dealt with promptly. There's a big difference between picking up the occasional, inevitable flea problem and the state which some rescues are in when they are found with massive, longterm infestations and I think what we are talking about here with Simon's bird is a definite case of gross negligence and cruelty. After all, if one bird is in this condition, how many others that this seller has are similarly affected?

[Bramble-Poultry]

bluemoon - you are right. mites and lice are a fact of life. no matter how careful we are you will end up with some. i check over everything that comes in here and powder it, spray it the works.

Thats the trick. you must deal with the problem when you see it, not put it off for "another day" i noticed this afternoon when i got back from work that one of my runs is showing signs of red mite. the first infestation i have had in 6 years, and i am pretty sure that i got it from a bird we rehomed and i missed the signs. so tomorrow's job is strip the run down, felt off, the works, spray all over with "Smite", powder the birds and then start from scratch again before it works through the other pens

But there are some people out there - auctions and shows they can be found - where the birds are physically twitching because they are crawling and yet these breeders are held in high esteme? how can that be when rule one of animal welfare is to treat illnesses as they occur?

it does sound like the bird was a case of neglect, however, we must be absolutley resolute that we will not buy a bird in that condition as if we do, even out of pity, then the breeder has been given the green card to carry on regardless. If no-one buys their birds they will get the message. It does sound harsh and some birds will suffer, but in the linger term poor husbandry can be wiped out

[Hilary B]

Labradoddles were bred on purpose (they are good as guide dogs aren't they?) and that is how new breeds get started. It isn't so very many decades since the Dobermann was created from several other breeds (the only one I can remember is Daschund).
A friend of mine used to breed 'Malties', Maltese cross Yorkie. They sold for what I would think of as silly prices!
wrt selling ill hens, the shop needs telling that you intend to report them for allowing the sale of goods which are 'not of merchantable quality' (Sale of Goods Act, I bet it applies to livestock as well). Trading Standards might be more effective than RSPCA....