Has anyone got a clue...

[Shellintons]

Why I am having such problems?
I have posted a reply in another thread where I think I have answered my own question here but am interested in the experience of others here.

I have some nice splash orpington girls and I have been trying to get a blue cockerel too. I found someone who breeds and shows them and I came away with 1 blue cockerel (2 days old) and 3 gold-lace orps (8 weeks). All from show winning stock.

Unfortunately I have had problems with 2 of the gold lace and the blue cockerel. They seem to have lost the use of their legs. I am being careful not to let them over feed and the one Gold Lace which survived is the most beautiful big girl. I had them at the vets and the only thing he could put it down to was some kind of nerve damage. The gold lace both went very lame very quickly and we despatched them before it became cruel and unfortunately my gorgeous, friendly blue boy has gone the same way, although I thought I spotted an improvement today but tomorrow will tell. It is as if they become almost double jointed but with no control and one foot splays out to the side. He almost spins round on one leg when he tries to stand still on it.

I have had black orpingtons from day old chicks before and they lived a long and happy life and the splash Orps I hatched out myself are fabulous and I have raised all kinds of different chicks for people without problems and had chickens for over 10 years now (for eggs and meat). What am I doing so very wrong now?

I am sorry for the whole ramble and length of this. Please don't get me started on E-Bay eggs

[RichmondHens]

In the absence of illness, which you vet should have ruled out, I can only assume it is due to a genetic fault. "Show winning stock" may be beautiful, but other assets are sacrificed to create this beauty, eg Orpingtons used to be a fantastic egg laying breed, but this has been considerably reduced in the creation of the "classic" show type Orpington that we see today.

I'm sure someone else will be able to help you more.

[chicken slave]

I have mottled orpingtons and have the same problem, we lost one girl and the other is having walking problems at the moment. The cockeral strutts like a supermodel swinging his legs forward so I think it has something to do with genetics.

[Bramble-Poultry]

In fact Richmond you are perfectly correct and I can only rienforce what she has said - In the absence of an illness there is only one option and I'm sorry to say that this is common with a lot of so called "show" birds they are so inbread to get the desirable traits that they actually breed in problems - the breeders consider this an acceptable risk knowing that they will lose a lot but they bet on teh fact that the one or two that survive are carrying what they want them to carry - then they breed from these knowing that their siblings had problems so they infact breed in the gene! Orpingtons are very prone to leg troubles due to their size and the fact that they are quite interbred.

Its not unique to the chicken world and happens wherever people are breeding for show!

If you want a blue from non show non inbred stock (but still a nice bird around 14 weeks) then ask me very very nicely, my gold laced and jubilee are still on heat at 2 weeks though!!! (sorry guys for the blatent advertising but she is local!!)

[Shellintons]

I am so pleased to have read these replies and thank you for them all
Bramble I shall contact you about the blue, I really do need one, as much for my 5 year old as for me. (she has got the chicken bug already and lost her last cockerel to the pot)
The Gold Lace were for my OH so I may well want some of those in the future as a presie for him
Thanks again, I don't feel like a complete failure now

[Suechooks]

This sort of thing happens in all creatures which humans breed for show. It's illegal in humans so why the h..l do breeders think its ok in the animal world?

[Bramble-Poultry]

Too true sue - see so many problems with hips etc in show dogs due to poor breeding!

Shellingtons - you are not a failure hun no where near! As for your daughter I pity you greatly I have one like that she has had the bug from around 6 and now shes hell on earth with chickens and shes 10 - anyone on here who knows us will tell you she is a diva when it comes to chickens!!!

[Shellintons]

Bramble, thanks for that I feel so much better. I have emailed you and phoned (not that I am keen lol) But the deed is to be done this evening re our blue boy and I would like to get a replacement as soon as poss for the daughter
Don't let him go till I have spoken to you, thanks

[Bramble-Poultry]

sorry - not at home atm - will be after 6pm if you want to ring again or pm me your number and I will ring you - i'm leaving here in around 5 mins so will be back online when I get home!!

[Hilary B]

While I would tend to agree that in-breeding fixes bad characteristics as well as good ones, the reason it is permissible (in moderation) in non-humans is the option to cull the ones with faults (or at least exclude them from any breeding program), but of course there will always be those who will breed from the faulty ones if it isn't obvious, including those who buy the 'only for pet' ones and then decide to breed.
wrt dodgy legs, could there be a complicating factor from incubation problems? Isn't it an incubation thing when a chick hatches and 'does the splits'? (I have a couple of times managed to get a slight case of this back on its feet, with a very soft hobble)

[Shellintons]

Hilary, Thanks for your reply.
Whilst I understand about the problems with the breeding programs, and why it is permisible, I feel a bit more honesty from some breeders would not go amiss and it is not the way I wish to go forward when breeding for myself.

Some of the hardiest, healthiest birds I have ever raised were from 'back garden' stock. Pets, if you will. In fact the meatiest light sussex I ever had were from someones back garden. Not big boned, show types but good fleshy birds that lay regularly.
I am not saying all breeders are the same, that would be wrong but I doubt I shall ever buy show stock again.
As for the incubation thing, yes, I have had 2 chicks with the 'splits' and we splinted them up but unfortunately they didn't get any better but I do believe it is an incubation problem in that respect. And the birds I have had these (above) problems with were incubated by the breeder, who says he never has any problems though I find this hard to believe. These chicks all looked healthy when we brought them home but the problems started as they reached roughly 12 weeks old.
As I said, thank you for the reply, it helps to know that it isn't just me

[Hilary B]

Hilary, Thanks for your reply.
Whilst I understand about the problems with the breeding programs, and why it is permisible, I feel a bit more honesty from some breeders would not go amiss and it is not the way I wish to go forward when breeding for myself.

Some of the hardiest, healthiest birds I have ever raised were from 'back garden' stock. Pets, if you will. In fact the meatiest light sussex I ever had were from someones back garden. Not big boned, show types but good fleshy birds that lay regularly.
I am not saying all breeders are the same, that would be wrong but I doubt I shall ever buy show stock again.
As for the incubation thing, yes, I have had 2 chicks with the 'splits' and we splinted them up but unfortunately they didn't get any better but I do believe it is an incubation problem in that respect. And the birds I have had these (above) problems with were incubated by the breeder, who says he never has any problems though I find this hard to believe. These chicks all looked healthy when we brought them home but the problems started as they reached roughly 12 weeks old.
As I said, thank you for the reply, it helps to know that it isn't just me

The problem with breeding from 'just pets' is when they are the 'not-quite-good-enough' purebreds (happens all too much with dogs) sold as 'pets' in preference to culling.
If no-one had ever gone for in-breeding, there would be no such thing as pure breeds. It is how the breeds were established. The problem comes when it is done too much, and not sufficiently selectively.

[Shellintons]

I see where you are going with that Hilary but I will be happier keeping my garden stocked with hens that seem to lead longer healthier lives than any of the 'good enough' pure breeds I have experienced so far. I suppose we only ever really know about the things we experience for ourselves. I have come full circle from back garden pets, through pure breeds and am back again, and I am happy with the choices I am making and that is all one can ask out of life.