DEFRA/GB poultry reg help

[its hilly]

Well I've looked at the website but it only seems to tell you how to register. What I really want to know is what you have to do once you're actually on the register.
eg do you have to have all your chooks vaccinated or something, or are there rules about housing, feeding etc. Or is it just a case of saying I've got 2 million chooks, thanks Joe
I'm up to 40odd already so its quite a worry.

[Bramble-Poultry]

Hilly

No you just register and tell them how many. We registered had to declare our livestock etc on the survey they send to you and then that was the last we heard from them apart from updates and newsletters.

[Glutton4...]

So why does no-one want to get to Defra levels then? There must be a reason, surely.

[Bramble-Poultry]

well we've had no probs at all being defra reg'd - i suppose our time will come!

There are problems obvioulsy for example if they declare an outbreak of disease being registered they will know you have chooks and come to kill them if you are in their kill zone, non registered people escape as they don;t know you exist.

There are also things that backyard poultry keepers get away with even though they are illegal that defra reg'd people will be prosicuted for.

Defra are entitled to come to your property whenever they like as are animal welfare they do not need to be called by memebers of the public they do it at random - you do not even need to be in and if you are in you can;t refuse them entry.

Defra are not all that bad to be fair to them they are trying to obtain a certain level of standard conditions for our animals and protect them - thats not such a bad thing

[Glutton4...]

I'm with you there BP, and agree standards must be maintained. I suppose I was as curious as Hilly, but hadn't actually got round to posting the question myself.

I would be interested to know more though.

[its hilly]

Thanks BP.
Not sure now if thats good or bad news, if you said there was loads of hassle it might have stopped me thinking 'shall I go to the feb rare breeds sale or not'

[PAULW]

Now you've gone and done it, walked into the trap all by yourself, nothing to fear from DEFRA, there was a case down heere in dorset a few weeks ago where a woman who kept chickens wanted to sell her excess eggs to the local village shop a matter of a couple of dozen a week, she applied to defra to see where she stood, what a rigomarole she went through, I will see if I can find the article.
You have also put yourself forward for the chicken tax that is coming, horses started with a passport under the pretext that the medical history/treatment was known when it entered the food chain not that we eat horse in this country anyhow, they have now had a tax of a £100 a year slapped on them.

[PAULW]

As an authority on bacterial diseases Professor Susannah Eykyn knows a thing or two about food hygiene.
Certainly she was confident that the three dozen home-produced eggs she wanted to sell each week at her village shop were perfectly safe to eat.
Judging by the speed with which they have now been snapped up, so are the shop's customers.
But officials from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs were less impressed. After all, there's the EC Welfare of Laying Hens Directive to be complied with.
That meant a visit from from a Defra inspector - who at one point put on a protective suit to examine the hut where she keeps her 29 hens.

A second visit by an Environmental Health officer followed.
'His sole contribution to the whole affair was to ask what the kitchen was cleaned with and I told him Waitrose cleaning fluid which he was happy with,' said Professor Eykyn, who, incidentally, is a viscountess.
In all, the inspectors spent some six hours poking around her home.
The exasperated Professor added: 'It does seem to be quite remarkable that for me to sell a few surplus eggs at the village stores I needed to be subjected to this utter nonsense.



Read more: Pensioner selling six boxes of eggs a week to village shop interrogated by Defra 'hen inspector' | Mail Online

[PAULW]

Viscountess Dilhorne, a professor of clinical microbiology, who has 29 hens, decided to sell about six boxes of surplus eggs a week at the shop in Cerne Abbas, Dorset.

After applying for approval, she had two three hour visits by a “hen” inspector from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra).


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She said: "These jobsworth people don't seem to differentiate between someone like me who has a few extra eggs to sell and someone who supplies Tesco with 100,000 eggs a year.”

Lady Dilhorne, whose professional name is Prof Susannah Eykyn, said the official wore a protective suit when he inspected the chicken house at her home in the neighbouring hamlet of Minterne Parva.

She said: "It does seem to be quite remarkable that for me to sell a few surplus eggs at the village stores I needed to be subjected to this utter nonsense.

"It was tedious and a waste of everybody's time and money. The inspector had to drive from wherever he was based to come and inspect my home and treat me like a child, I mean, where are we at in this country?”

Lady Dilhorne and the inspector discussed “hygiene and what was meant by a clean egg and how to clean an egg. We spoke about how to weigh an egg and what were the appropriate scales to use.

"Two weeks later he returned with an environmental health officer, whose sole contribution to the whole affair was to ask what the kitchen was cleaned with. I told him Waitrose cleaning fluid which he was happy with.

"What was amazing was that at no stage did anyone ask me whether the hens had been vaccinated against salmonella, which they have. I would have thought that would have been pretty important.”

Lady Dilhorne was finally told she was compliant with the EC Welfare of Laying Hens Directive. “My kitchen is now classed as a packing station and I am the business manager of Professor Eykyn's Class A Free Range Eggs."

Lady Dilhorne’s hens include Cotswold Legbars, French copper black Merans and Rhode Island Reds.

Andrew Farrow, proprietor of Cerne Abbas stores, said of the eggs: “They are richer than normal free range eggs and are normally all gone within a day."

Defra said: "All Class A eggs sold at retail level within the EU are legally required to be marked with a code identifying the establishment, country of origin and method of production (i.e. organic, free range, barn or cage)."

[Suechooks]

Can't understand why this lady didn't just sell the eggs "from the gate" as that would have not contravened any DEFRA regs. If it was twenty dozen I could see the point of going through the shop but 3 dozen??!! Sledgehammer to crack a nut!

[Bramble-Poultry]

if you all refer to a previous post of ours, you will see that i mentioned all of this if i wanted to sell eggs to a middle man. registering with defra as mentioned in the original post above and the egg marketting board are too separate things.

DEFRA need you to register with any flocks over 50 so that if an avian influenza outbreak occurs they will know the area of concentration for potential spread. THey are not interested in what you do with your birds as that is a different department.

The Egg Marketting Board are interested in the health of the human population. THerefore, all eggs sold through a middle man (shop etc) must conform to regulations to protect the consumer. different department entirely.

The environmental health officer has nothing to do with defra, he is employed by teh local council. If you intend to sell eggs to a shop, he needs to be informed by law. The egg marketting board are legally obliged to pass on your details if you register as an egg producer to the environmental health officer.

If she wanted to avoid all of this, then the Countess should have sold the eggs through a WI market as they are exempt from egg stamping etc and can act as a shop window for her eggs. all she needs to do is agree to collect any eggs that remain unsold at the end of the day's market.

So if the original poster wishes to contact DEFRA and register with the Poultry Register of Great Britain, law for over 50 birds, optional for under 50, all she will get is veterinary advice and warnings through the post.

certain species may get more information, for example as we are a registered holding with turkeys, we recieved the information regarding registration under the new turkey salmonella scheme comin into force in January. We are exempt from compulsory testing as we have under 250 breeding birds, but we can voluntarily register to have our flocks tested FOR FREE, for salmonella if we so desire. we are not worreid about them inspecting - shouldwe, do we have something to hide? surely if the flock is certified free of salmonella then thats in our benefit as well as theres. if it comes up psoitve, they will help you work out how and what to do about it.

i used to think that DEFRA was all bad, part of the dictatorship, but really they are reasonable guys trying to do an impossible job of saling through unbelievable red tape in an effort to keep this country safe from infections etc.

OK, some of the rules are barmy, but if they are there to safeguard the animals and your health, what are you afraid of?

[its hilly]

Paul, must admit it sounds mad, but the reason Defra and enviro health dont differ between someone who sells a few dozen eggs and someone who supplies supermarkets is that a dozen eggs from a hobby seller with a sick flock could cause just as severe an illness as those from a big seller, just not as widespread numbers wise. And its probably more likely that a hobbist will not have the knowledge to prevent illness/disease in their birds. When I was cook in a nursing home I supplied eggs to the staff but wasn't allowed to use them for the residents for that very reason. And as Bramble says its only if you sell via an agent (shop, market..except WI..etc) that this applies anyway. If eggs go direct from you to consumer then you dont need to register as a seller.
As I'm thinking of registering my flock, not supplying eggs to shops etc then I'm not too worried.
Mind you after dealing with the paperwork a nursing home cook has to deal with...suppliers, enviro health, council etc,...think I'm used to it.

[Glutton4...]

I know I'm not the original poster, but I'd like to thank those more knowledgeable people above for your input. Luckily I'm not getting up to the 50 bird mark just yet, but I feel a whole lot more relaxed about the possibility, should I decide to go down that route.

Cheers peeps

[Snadger]

I've made a concious decision to stop at 49!

Not because I'm worried about DEFRA I may add, it's just that in my mind (and probably in DEFRA'S also), at THAT number it ceases to become a hobby and becomes a business?
At 50 birds I would have to devote a lot more time to them and as an amatuer............I really can't afford the added expense and the time off from my main work!

[its hilly]

Dunno Snadger, I added up this morning and got to 42 but they don't really take up much more time on the work side, cos you just end up better organised . Bear in mind mine are in a barn or sheds..so bigger feeders/waterers filled at night ready for am...lino under roosts so just drag to muck heap and scrape, and cos I've got horses you get fairly sharp at daily mucking out and cleaning anyway so the weekly 'bottoming' gets added in to that. Maybe an extra half/threequarter hour? on top. Its easy to give them all a scan over while they tuck in to breakfast, so its the checking over for weight/mites etc that takes time and I tend to do some each night (cos they've alread roosted when I get there it easy to catch them ) so it adds a bit each night. Around fortnightly I spend all of one of my days off at the buildings catching up on anything extra..horses and chooks. But then Ive always had livestock and so I can seriously shift the work when I need to.

Not that I'm encouraging you of course..........