Non-chicken keeper seeking advice on laws

[reetnproper]

Hi guys,

Our next door neighbours have a rather a large number of chickens in their 'back garden' - at least 40 birds in approximately 50ft by 30ft. Needless to day there is absolutely no ground level greenery left within that patch.

The problem we have is that there are always 3 or 4 at a time getting out into the lane which runs between our houses and they have pecked the plants out of the front gardens of the houses which face onto the lane behind us and some of the grass. Complaints have been made by said neighbours (several of them) but to no avail.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't be over worried (other than for the number of rats) as we have a 6ft high fence between us and the lane and I was under the impression that chickens ddn't fly due to clipped wings. However, over the last couple of weeks we've seen some of the chickens happily roosting in the trees surrounding the neighbours garden which would indicate that they're not having their wings clipped (I think bearing in mind I know NOTHING about chickens other than they taste nice roasted with butter and garlic ) and now I live in hourly dread of finding them in our veg patch decimating my precious crops.

In addition to this is the aforementioned rat problems. Now we have lived in this house for nearly 8yrs and up to the chickens arriving we had NEVER seen a rat out and about in broad daylight. That's not to say that they haven't been here. We're not daft. We know they're about. But it is not a coincidence that with the increased number of chickens has come a trully unbelieveable number of rats!

The main nest is amongst the hedge that runs down the side of the main chicekn area and between us, our neighbours and us must have spent hundreds on rat bait and traps but nothing seems to work. We have a couple of weeks, after fresh bait goes down, where no rats are seen but then we'll catch sight of the mother rat (she's huge and we think immune to the poison), quickly followed by juveniles (lots of them) running around the garden happy as you like. Last week OH discovered a rats nest in the compost (was there the week before) with 10 furless baby rats in it. 10!!!!!! Can you imagine if say 3 of them were female??? No wonder we've got a problem.

Can some one please advice us as to law re numbers that can be kept in a built up area (village) and if we have any redress re sorting the rats out?

Many thanks
Reet
x

[Bramble-Poultry]

1. over 50 birds he must register them by law with DEFRA
2. Allotments Act 1950 allows a person a general licence to keep poultry, however this licence can be revoked if they cause nusiance and this can be proved.
3. Rats - contact your local council and ask for envrinmental health. they will enforce action upon him if their investigation shows he is the cause
4. Public Liability Insurance. If his chickens cause an accident by wandering into a roadway, then he can be sued for damages under public liability. he therefore needs to have PL insurance in place
5. Animal Welfare Officer for your county council - he has the power to enter a property and impound any livestock he does not think are being kept correctly. In this regard the RSPCA are useless as they have no more powers than you or I with livestock. Just because they wear a uniform does not entitle hem to enter property or confiscate - they need to involve an AWO so cut out the middle man.

i would personally speak to him first, or maybe get together with your neighbours and write a letter. this will prove the nuisance bit. From there on in you need to involve the councils Environmental Health team who will carry out enforcement

[Shellintons]

Firstly, I would like to say how sorry I am for you. It is difficult when you get someone who seems to care less about their neighbours.
I had a problem with rats a couple of years ago but they were coming in from under my neighbours dog run. After many attempts at poisoning them we found out that the cure for most of the poisons available is vitamin C which is one of the ingredients in layers pellets. So we talked to a farmer we knew who gave us some of what he used. This did eventually do the trick. With that and the 5 cats next door who sat in the chooks run (oddly the only summer the chooks have allowed this, maybe they aren't stupid) we managed to deal with the problem to a point. Blocking the food and water off overnight helped too.
If your neighbour is leaving food out overnight it will attract the rats. Also, if that were me, I would be mortified that my chooks were causing so much devastation to someone else's gardens and would take steps to ensure it didn't happen.
Your neighbours do not sound like the type of people that frequent this kind of forum, I would be suprisped if most of us didn't feel they were very irresponsible.
If you cannot talk to them about putting food away, clipping the wings etc, then I would probably approach your local council. Not sure what this would come under, maybe environmental health. Don't count on it, my local one came round to see a big dog left in a 6 foot run 24/7 which got cleaned out once a week! and said it was fine. They want to live next to it in weather like this!
You will probably get lots more useful advice on here soon. Good luck and I hope you get it sorted. It is a shame that someone can spoil things so much by being so irresponsible, and yes they do taste good roasted. Erm...the chickens not the owners ;p

I took so long to write this Bramble beat me to it

[RichmondHens]

....... we found out that the cure for most of the poisons available is vitamin C which is one of the ingredients in layers pellets.

It's actually vitamin K, Shellintons, but I'm sure that would be in pellet food too ..... A lot of conventional rat poisons contain Warfarin which works by thinning the blood to a point where it cannot clot. Vitamin K is a clotting agent (I had a cat years ago poisoned by rat poison and it took huge doses of Vit K to put him right, but happily he survived for many more years after that) so would indeed counter the poison.

Sorry to hear of your problem Reet. I would go with Bramble's advice on this and talk to your neighbours first, and if that doesn't work, seek advice from the council AWO.

[lindyloo]

speak to your nieghbor first and see what he can do to stop his chicken coming over; perhaps a higher row of chicken wire. and also to cut down on the rat problem. i dont think the rats can be entirely blamed on chicken, as there has been a huge increase over the years due to weather conditions and the fact that so many peole are now composting, and putting the rubbish into various containers, to await collection, but chicken do attract rats so i am sure he will want to keep thier numbers down as much as you. the other thing you can do is contact the county council to see what the bylaws are in your area concerning keeping livestock, chicken included. they could also be contacted for pest control, if the rats are very bad. defra as mentioned. as a matter of interest, are you in a rural location, and was the nieghbor keeping chicken before you moved there? i think he has an obligation not to allow his animals to make a nuisance of themselves, but not sure if straying into your veg plot would be seen as a nuisance by authorities; it might be that it is your responsibilty to fence of the veg in an approraite manner. if he is willing, he could clip the wings so they cant fly over, and reinforce the fencing at groundlevel so thier is no gaps for them to get through. i think that would depend on whose boundary fence it is too, but the best way is to discuss it with him in as friendly a mannneer as possible.

[Shellintons]

It's actually vitamin K, Shellintons, but I'm sure that would be in pellet food too ..... A lot of conventional rat poisons contain Warfarin which works by thinning the blood to a point where it cannot clot. Vitamin K is a clotting agent (I had a cat years ago poisoned by rat poison and it took huge doses of Vit K to put him right, but happily he survived for many more years after that) so would indeed counter the poison.
AWO.

lol, you're right, I'm claiming sun stroke making me fuzzy today
it did make a difference when we changed the type of poison so I'm happy to think it's true

[MrsC]

Sorry to hear of your predictament, just wondering what type of chucks they are if they are roosting in trees, not the usual egg layers if they are doing that. Likewise, what everyone else has said.

[reetnproper]

Thank you everyone for your advice and suggestions, it is greatly appreciated. At least we now have some idea where we can start both as a group and as individuals.

as a matter of interest, are you in a rural location, and was the nieghbor keeping chicken before you moved there?

Yes we are rural but in the middle of a village. The neighbour moved in several years after us.

i think he has an obligation not to allow his animals to make a nuisance of themselves, but not sure if straying into your veg plot would be seen as a nuisance by authorities; it might be that it is your responsibilty to fence of the veg in an approraite manner. if he is willing, he could clip the wings so they cant fly over, and reinforce the fencing at groundlevel so thier is no gaps for them to get through. i think that would depend on whose boundary fence it is too, but the best way is to discuss it with him in as friendly a mannneer as possible.

In terms of the boundary fence, this isn't an issue as there is a lane between us and them. Our entire garden (including veg patch) is enclosed by a 6 ft, solid, featheredged fence, so the only way in for chickens is over the fence.

Reet
x

[lindyloo]

i think then that you are in a good position to negotiate with him, as you were there first, so he cant say you moved next door knowing he kept poultry, and ditto the fence, it is up to him to maintain it.

[Hilary B]

Any owner of livestock has an obligation to keep it within bounds (or at least to make all realistic attempts to do so, some 'livestock' are just too good at defeating fences etc.)
If they eat your veg, you are technically entitled to compensation (which if you want home-grown is not really the issue, but if being nice doesn't get results, mentioning that you would expect compensation for any damage done might provoke a fit of responsibility).
40+ chooks in a run 50ft by 30ft is very close to the 1 bird per sq m limit (which responsible chook owners would only consider adequate for chooks that also get free-ranging time most days).
At this time of year, the smell might be your best 'ammunition' if it comes to involving the council....