Faverolle with sudden illness...advice PLEASE!

[Bephlam]

Hi folks,

I haven't posted for ages!

However, today I need some of the wonderful advice that only my fellow grapes can offer me.

I have a poorly faverolle...and it has me a wee bit baffled, so I'm looking for some second opinions please.

I went out today and one of the faverolles didn't surface as her usual hour. I check in the coup and she was lying on the floor, in the corner. I initially assumed she'd gone broody (as I have two broody girls already) so thought nothing of it and just picked her up and plonked her on the ground. However, it soon became apparent that she couldn't walk. I nudged her and she made attemts to flap her wings and push up using them, but despite her efforts could not stand. I, of course, did a wee top to toe on her, and although she was breathing heavy (which she often does when she's bein manhandled) she looks bright eyed and bushy tailed (some missing neck feathers, but that's a result of Mavis, my pecker...rather than illness). I turned her upside down to have a feel of her crop and vent area...when I did she had really bad thick yellow diarrhoea...projectile. After this, she stood up and walked back to her run. She was very shaky on her feet, and walked crouched (her legs pulled up in to her body) for most of it...constantly balancing herself with her wings. Once in the run she lay straight back down, where she has remained.

She was fine yesterday...however last night when they all went to bed I heard an almighty fuss...and it turned out the high perch had fallen off in their coup. I'm wondering if Gwendolyn was on it when it fell, and as such injured herself. Her legs feel cool to touch, no swelling or redness.

So, I guess what I'm asking is...what would you all do? Do you think my theory of bringing her indoors and giving her a few days cage rest to see if this gets better on it's own is a good one? Would you suggest any meds I could give her at home?

I'm definitely confused by this one....!

Thanks in advance folks....all advice is much appreciated. I worry myself sick when they're ill!

[Glutton4...]

Oh poor you, and her! I hope she perks up.

I had a Marans and Battie who had similar symptoms. Holding themselves upright with their wings, and legs not really doing anything. On both occasions, I isolated them. The Marans was very young, only just laying, and she wouldn't eat, or make any effort to do anything, so we put her out of her misery - she weighed next to nothing!

The second occasion was with a Battie, who was old and no longer laying, and whilst she would try to walk if I assisted, she just couldn't manage it, but was eating and drinking fine, but clearly going down hill. After two days we put her out of her misery too.

I hope you have a better result than I did.

[motherhen]

All the usual questions really how old, what is she fed, if you have a pecker! is that one driving her off her food, could it be worm infestation? Went to a chicken health seminar the other day ( like you do ) and if birds are fed the incorrect calcium level in the early part of their lives they can suffer from calcium deficiency and the symtems that you are discribing are very muck like these.

[Bephlam]

Grrr...bleeding computer! Just typed a whole response and lost it! I'll go again...

I've brought her in the house and checked her over again. I still can't feel anything out the ordinary. This morning her legs were almost dead...no reaction to touch, etc. However, she's now pulling them up when I pull them, and she's curling her toes around my fingers, etc. She'll stand now...just looks stiff, and is reluctant to take a step. I gave her 0.1mg or Metacam (NSAID) just in case she has injured herself when the perch fell.

I popped a finger in her vent, but can't feel anything. Other than she's contracting constantly, like she's trying to lay.

She ate a full scrambled egg whilst in the house, and had a really good drink. She seems stronger, but still far from normal. I've popped her back in the coup with her own food and water. She's positioned herself right at the door, so she gets some fresh air.

I wouldn't imagine it's a calcium deficiency. She'll be 3 now...and has been fed on growers and then pellets. She gets mixed corn in the winter nights, and porridge on cold mornings. She eats lots of probiotic yoghurt, fruit, soya protein, etc.

I don't know what else to do for now.... :/

[Bephlam]

if you have a pecker! is that one driving her off her food, could it be worm infestation?.

No! Mavis has been a pecker for the last year...she has one of my Marans bald! (lol) But, she never causes a problem with the others feeding etc. Gewndolyn couldn't be driven off her food...she's a glutton!

[RichmondHens]

I suggest a trip to the vet, she sounds very poorly. If this is not an option then keep her separate in a quiet place, but be prepared to euthanase her if she is not recovered in 24 hours. You don't want to let her suffer.

[Bephlam]

Update on her...She's eating normally. I went out to see her and she jumped out the coup (3 foot jump) and I wasn't happy about her doing it so I've brought her indoors and put her in a cage in the porch. She's now standing all the time...typical.

She still seems shaky on her feet...but really looks normal otherwise.

She's eaten some yoghurt with grated apple and honey...and she's super keen to eat.

Before I brought her in she made her way out the garden and scraped about for five, before lying down on the ground where she pretty much stayed until I went out to get her.

Her crop is very empty, but that's probably due to the fact she's not eating solid food today.

I'm not prepared to euthanise her whilst she remains brights and able to eat. I would not have her suffer either, but I don't think 24 hours is a long enough time to allow her body to work through it. Of course, if there is deterioration I'll do what's neccessary.

Would anyone suggest anything else that I may do? I am almost convinced she's hurt herself when the perch fell....apart from the fact that she appears to be contracting all the time, rythmically pushing, like she's laying..but nothing! I've had a feel, but I can't feel any obstruction.

[its hilly]

Is she normally a layer? and if so has she missed? Could it be egg peritonitis? I'm working on the theory that tummy ache could be keeping her still.
Hope you work it out Bephlam, but tbh I'd be stuffing her full of antibiotics and tonic, just to see if it works.

[Bephlam]

Thought I'd post a wee update on Gwendolyn today.

So, she spent the night in the house. Had a 30 minute soak in the bath, was blowdried...ate loads yesterday and through the night passed A LOT of poo. It's still very odd...green, smelly with quite a lot of yellow (scrambled egg like) stuff. However, after she passed this she began looking a bit better...standing, walking easier.

I've given her some Noroclav today (antibiotics) and continued on with her worming treatment, just on the off chance.

She's eating well, drinking well...spending a lot of time lying on the ground, but she can stand and walk...just looks sore.

I'm planning on seeing what happens with laying today, and I will contact the vet in the morning for some advice if there is no more improvement.

Should I be overly concerned if she doesn't lay today? She definitely didn't lay yesterday....as I've had her in since midday. :/

[Bephlam]

Seeking a wee bit more advice!

I took Gwen to an avian specialist (two actually, first one was useless though)...and like us, he was completely stumped. He said she doesn't have classic mareks symptoms, although we can never fully rule it out.

He was shocked how well she looked, despite being almost unable to walk. Her wings are limp...not much tone in her, but she'll grasp the hand with her feet...and stand for ages. However, when she starts to walk she's all over the place.

Anyway...he said the only real way to diagnose would be to do an endoscopy, but felt that she probably wouldn't cope well with that...and doesn't believe it would change the outcome.

He did an internal and said he definitely feels it's abnormal...possibly enlarged organ or a leison of sorts.

Anyway...I was all prepared to euthanise her, when he said he didn't feel she was a chicken who had given up, and if it were him he'd offer her another week. I was shocked at this, but as I'm keen not to lose her I agreed. I brought her home, and he has asked me to give her 1.5ml metacam daily, for 5 days and see where we go from there.

If I don't feel there is an improvement then I can call him to discuss where we go from here.

I guess I'm looking for opinions. She's been in the house for 2 weeks on Saturday - she's eating, drinking, preening and boking away all day. She appears pain free, although I'm beginning to think she's tender at the back end. She hasn't laid for a week, and other than little trips to the garden she's stuck in a cage in our utility room.

How long do you think I should put her through this? Do you think there is likely to be a good outcome, honestly....and or, can you think of anything else that may be the cause of these sort of symptoms?

If she was an obviously ill, puffy chicken, who was off her food the decision would be easy...as ultimately I don't believe in prolonging life where the animal is suffering...however, she's so happy and content....so it's making it much harder!

Thanks again for all your advice guys...much appreciated!

B x

[Snadger]

Hi Bephlam

I have recently had to cull a young cockerel with very similar symptoms. He was due to go in with my Faverolle cockerels flock. The Faverolle cockerel is a big softie but I'm sure that the young cockerel being disadvantaged would have been killed by him.
He was well fed, ate and drank well, was in good condition but tended to fall over if he tried to walk too far.
It broke my heart to cull him but I know I did the right thing.

Its a hard decision to make, but only you can make it.

[RichmondHens]

My opinion is cull her, and move on. Harsh but practical. Sorry. I am very surprised the vet suggested keeping her going TBH.

[Bephlam]

That is harsh...not the cull bit, but the move on bit. I'm shocked at how harsh it is truthfully. I'm not keeping chickens as a business, these are my pets. Yes, I hatch and I have a few...but they are still individual lifes and living creatures. Also, I'm a buddhist, so ending life cannot be done and moved on from for me.

The vet did suggest keeping her going, because she is so well outwith the walking. So, he felt she deserved some more time...as she doesn't appear to be suffering, isn't losing weight, and is in no danger in the house. However, I won't keep get alive for the sake of life...she needs to have a quality of life.

However, she'll never be 'culled' and forgotten about. If I have to euthanise her, I will...and I'll mourn her wee loss. She may only be a chicken...and death is maybe the 'practical' option, but for me...life isn't something I can extinguish and not have a heavy heart over it.

[RichmondHens]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. It was just that from your description of her symptoms and that the fact that she has been like this for some 10 (?) days now the kindest thing would be to put her out of her misery. And I do understand that chickens are pets for a lot of people, (I have pet hens too, they are not all "working" birds) and of course I wouldn't expect you to forget them. I obviously didn't word it very well and I do apologise for upsetting you.

[petal]

Richmond hens is right, sorry! when we own animals we owe it to them to make the right decision. It is very upsetting when a favourite pet is ill and yet you will know when her time is over. Like with our Edward, it just took us a few days to realise that he was never going to live a full and happy life again, integrated in a busy flock, doing what chickens like doing. Give your faverolle a week of therapy then see whether she can live successfully with the other hens - chickens need to live in groups (and remember that some vets have a tendency to keep animals alive so they can make more money on repeat trips....)good luck - I hope the outcome is positive but remember RH and I have had hens for many years - experience tends to make you a bit more 'blunt'.