instinct vs learned behaviour

[baldrick]

bit off the wall but the other night over a couple of home brews and watching our baby velociraptors under their lamp (ahem!) we were discussing socialisation. If mammals arent exposed to lots of good parenting, lots of experiences and people from an early age they often fail to mate, raise and parent young, cope with new places and situations or bond with humans. Our ex batts were raised in a totally mechanised environment, and if you look at videos of this environment they are handled for sexing, loading into slaughter crates and slaughter . They never have a mother hen, or a cockrel guarding their mum and her flock and they have literally no changes of scene, yet they still arrive into peoples lives, bond with them and appear quite resilient to changes of scene. They learn to scratch a nest, eat other food, take themselves to a nest box or to roost at night all by themselves. They will interact happily with humans, mate (though i understand the mothering instinct is largely bred out?), and they certainly interact with each other and form comfortable social heirarchies all without learning it. Try that with an adult dog who hasnt been allowed to interact with others since he left his mum at 8 weeks! In fact the only thing our ex batts never learned that our pure breeds do is roost on the high perches.
Dou other grapeviners reckon chicken behaviour is largely instinctive rather than learned??Does it matter?To get back to the reason for this train of thought is it really necessary for me to handle and hand feed my chicks several times a day, and is my plan to give them changes of environment by way of shiny things and digging stuff as soon as they are in their puppy pen really necessary?? Maybe I should stop drinking home brew?!

[squibbs]

Most of chicken behaviour is very instinctive. They are pretty simple organisms and so their basic programming shows through most of the time. Do you need to provide an exciting environment with sparkly things, a varied diet or is it just anthropomorphism - well it doesn't hurt to add some things and I like seeing my chickens free range. The primary goal of a species is to perpetuate the species and they have done very well at that on a planet where a big part of your survival depends on your usefulness to the dominant species.

Oh and in case you think we are far too clever to be so affected by our basic programming one of the main reasons for the parent child bond (particularly with mothers but proven to be the case with fathers too) is the huge slug of oxytocin our bodies put out at the time of birth (also released on skin - skin contact). Many of our other behaviours are hard wired too but being conscious organisms we can rise above our programming - but we are still in many ways quite bound by it.

My home brew is 50 miles away.

[RichmondHens]

I think most chicken behaviour is instinctive. I've watched incubator raised chicks trying to take a dustbath on newspaper sheets at just a few days old.

Unless you particularly want hand tame chicks then there is no real need to handle them, other than to check for lice etc as they grow (not necessary until they start going outside and having contact with other birds). We don't handle ours very much as chicks (apart from a once over at day old to check for any abnormalities then they are left alone), they get more used to being handled as they get older and have to endure the usual general condition checks that all the birds get.

As long as they are not too crowded, and have somewhere to scratch and bathe, thus satisfying those instincts, they will be fine. A small pile of sticks and leaves will entertain them just as much as a mirror and drop the odd live insect into the cage too.

[baldrick]

funny enough at 1 day old wellie caught a moth and ate it before i could say "oh look shes got a...." Chooks are truly amazing and weird. its like the whole group has a collective switch if they hear a funny noise they all look round like the scene with the tyrannasaur in jurassic park where he looks through the window, and they all troop off at night in order as soon as the sun gets to a certain level. ill get the babies some nice twigs and maybe some clean dry compost to scratch in instead of sawdust and try to leave them alone for a bit.They are very cute though.................

[Suechooks]

I've just come inside from moving my 3 incubator-hatched chicks into larger surroundings and have been watching them scratch and furkle about in the new shavings just like mini-adults! Pure instinct!
My little Marans who have been hatched by a broody do seem more advanced than these even though they're a week younger. She has them out in their run scratching in the earth etc.

[baldrick]

Sue Rebecca and I are setting the puppy pen up later but they will still be coming in when unsupervised coz im scared of something getting them. i think im too soft for hand rearing. if i decide to have eggs again, (assuming we make a decision to eat the boys that we will stick to!) ill cave in and let rebecca have a silkie to brood them. leaning more towards a couple of ex batts though i think. omg decisions decisions!

[grenhouse]

Funnily enough, I had this conversation yesterday! I have 4 broodies at the mo who were all raised in an incubator and by me! However, now with their chicks only a cuople of days old they understand how to protect them. They call them over by placing food on the floor and know when is time to cover them up for the night etc. Proof if needed that it is all down to instinct!

Steve

[Suechooks]

There's nothing nicer than a hen with chicks is there? I spent ages just watching my broody Orpington banty with her chicks this morning doing all the things you've said Steve! I was doubtful aboout using her as she's only young herself but she has been amazing!
I have a Silkie sitting on 2 enormous goose eggs at the moment! I wonder how she'll cope if they hatch!!!!!

[grenhouse]

I like hatching under broodies, its so comical, especially when the chicks jump and sit on their backs! I have had 2 broodies who have hatched 5 cream legbars each and have gone into a pen together. They share the 10 chicks between them and snuggle up together in the corner. Every other broody i have had is so vicious, but these 2 are so fussy and will still come for a stroke with their 4 day old babies.

I would love to see a broody sat on 2 goose eggs! Will be even funnier when they are following her around. Saw a pekin at auction other day with 9 ducklins who were all nearly as big as her! Good luck!

Steve

[its hilly]

I've got chickens raised by hens and chickens raised by me . They all behave the same. The split second they see me with food they all lift their skirts and run like billyoh.
The big advantage to handling the chicks a bit is that if I reach down to catch any of them it's the handled ones who are usually easiest to grab.
Having said that, some breeds are still flightier than others..even when handled as chicks.
But I know just what you mean about the velociraptor expression

[baldrick]

I've got chickens raised by hens and chickens raised by me . They all behave the same. The split second they see me with food they all lift their skirts and run like billyoh.
The big advantage to handling the chicks a bit is that if I reach down to catch any of them it's the handled ones who are usually easiest to grab.
Having said that, some breeds are still flightier than others..even when handled as chicks.
But I know just what you mean about the velociraptor expression

odd isnt it? our ex batts and now the 2 rescue warrens crouch for me to pick them up, to a point to does our welllie. The cream legbar just gives me the disdainful velociraptor look and submits, while the white leghorn pleases herself, flies a bit if she fancies even with a wing clip, picks on everyone, disappears to make nests of her own and has to be rugby tackled for check ups, nit powder and her regular visit from Jayney scissor hands (without whom she would be road runnering round the village). I am never ever ever having another leghorn. Not as a gift, not if you paid me ever!!!

[chris]

Well, I just watched my chickens actively avoid a bee. Not sure if it's because it was buzzing - but when it was crawling on the floor they did a circle around it when they spotted it. when it flew they ran away.. Instinct? Yellow/Black banding warnings working? or just plain scared? Not sure - but it was interesting to watch..

My lot, unfortuantely were from intensively reared stock.. so I doubt they were hatched under a mother hen.

[Flummery]

My friend's chickens went into attack mode when he threw them an old (cooked) sausage. I think they thought it was a snake! Which of course, they have never seen.