Off to the vet again I go

[VirginVegGrower]

Should we have got Tylan for her if it was a chest infection - I don't know what that means? I have been googling all night trying to work out what they had in order to now help the other two. If it passed from Rosemary to Madeline then I have to try and understand what it was in order to stop this domino effect. I am going round in circles with Cocciodiosis, Mycoplasma, Infectious Bronchitis - I'm just more confused than ever. Everywhere I turn looking for the answer I end up wading deeper into unknown territory.
The vet has his own chickens - he injected Baytril. The last vet she saw, her mother kept hens for years, so again knowledgeable, prescribed Baytril, but every site mentions Tylan 200. Should we have asked for that? Why didn't they prescribe it or was the chest infection a secondary condition. Would really appreciate some patient advice to help me understand what took two birds down in three weeks. I don't want to lose all four and am absolutely desperate.

[VirginVegGrower]

She became a major part of your life over the past few days....you are going to feel a massive gap.
You didn't fail , so don't beat yourself up about it- you gave her a wonderful, tender end to her life.
Well done.
You should feel proud of yourself...sad??....yup- of course- cos you're a lovely caring person. xx

I don't feel proud. I feel guilty I have missed something I should have seen but what I don't know. To lose one is painful but to lose two careless. I read all the books before getting them - we deliberately didn't put them under the large trees by the orchard. We had the coop and run down by the side of the house - more about fox prevention - on slabs with wood chips. The slabs and chips were renewed every 3-4weeks. I had the girls out with me in the garden every day free ranging. Only ever had them back in the run when we went out. We do back into a copse and open farmland. We have pigeons and buzzards; all other garden birds, etc.
I never saw blood in the poop which I think might rule out Coccidiosis but am not sure. No bubbly eye or nasal discharge. No breathing problems until less than 24 hours before losing her. Laboured breathing. Rapid weight loss. Off normal food. Wobbly on legs this morning. Had gone through a moult and she was refeathering which I find really gutting. I really did think I had got her picked up.

[chris]

I can't believe you just said you're careless - here, have a virtual slap! Don't be so daft!! You did everything in your powers, VVG many people wouldn't have but you have, so bear that in mind..

[VirginVegGrower]

I am just desperate to understand what went wrong with them Chris. Other people keep their hens years. I have two others and I feel I am unable to protect them if I don't know what took the first two.
I have been scrupulously clean about their coops, run, bedding, wood chips. Feeders/drinkers are in, washed and scalded every night. Always have been. Fresh feed and water every day. The man we bought them from had a large feeder that he refilled each week. I assume he doesn't kill his off as mine have. I need to understand what happened as I can't stop weeping, let alone the children. They were our pets, not food for us.

[Nicos]

Maybe you could ask the vet to do a post mortem on her?
Have you buried her?

[RichmondHens]

This may not be particularly helpful but one or two things spring to mind reading your last post. I wonder whether you have been a little "too clean" if that's possible. If all your hens are youngsters, they may well have not been exposed to much, and if your daily cleaning routine is as thorough as you suggest, they may have been a little slower to develop full immunity. I may be totally wrong though, it is only a suggestion. The drinkers do not need to be cleaned out daily, unless they have poo in them and a feed hopper only refilled every week is quite a usual routine for many chicken keepers, including myself. Remember that chickens are farmyard animals, quite happy to poke around in muck and mud looking for food. This of course doesn't mean that they need to be standing in it all day long (the way some people keep their chickens is of course the other extreme which is not healthy either). They also don't need mucking out daily, just often enough to stop the muck building up too much and producing excess ammonia which can lead to respiratory problems. Once or twice a week is fine. And go easy on disinfectants, mite sprays etc etc. Too much application can be just as harmful as the problems they are designed to tackle.

As I said, just a few thoughts. Plenty may disagree. I am very sorry to hear of your distress over the loss of your hens and know how hard it is when one loses a favourite pet.

Oh, and agree with Nicos, if it's not too late a PM may be useful if your vet will do one.

[VirginVegGrower]

Thanks RH it's funny because I wondered if by my over zealousness I have in some way contributed to their demise. I really bloody hope not. I didn't want feeders and water stuff out as it encourages vermin and with children in the setting up here I figured that was a bad mix anyhow. We have field mice and voles up here in abundance if they get past the owls. I take on board about the coop cleaning, although am burning the one we have - just ordered an Omlet Eglu coop in order to try and save the other two.
They do peck around the garden and it is by no means pristine suburbia. We are rural really and that's why I thought it would make for a perfect environment. Maybe I'm just not cut out to keep chickens as I really looked upon them as pets and not anything else really...I don't know.
Trouble is we ALL really loved having them. Still do, although the massive run looks bare with just two of them.
I don't know how old the birds were. I do know that Eloise was what was called a pullet I think - not laying when we had her.
My aunt had hundreds in three old barns and they used to be everywhere, in the cow sheds, drinking from the duck pond, on the road. I can't ever remember seeing a dead or sickly one.

[VirginVegGrower]

Maybe you could ask the vet to do a post mortem on her?
Have you buried her?

Not yet - we were cremating her to put with Rosemary's ashes which we have buried in their garden sun patch. Don't think I could face having that done to her. I know it's sensible but don't think I could do that. I looked at pics of your hens - Madeline was just like them. I like Copper Blacks - she had a lovely human like nature.

[RichmondHens]

Thanks RH it's funny because I wondered if by my over zealousness I have in some way contributed to their demise. I really bloody hope not. I didn't want feeders and water stuff out as it encourages vermin and with children in the setting up here I figured that was a bad mix anyhow. We have field mice and voles up here in abundance if they get past the owls. I take on board about the coop cleaning, although am burning the one we have - just ordered an Omlet Eglu coop in order to try and save the other two.
They do peck around the garden and it is by no means pristine suburbia. We are rural really and that's why I thought it would make for a perfect environment. Maybe I'm just not cut out to keep chickens as I really looked upon them as pets and not anything else really...I don't know.
Trouble is we ALL really loved having them. Still do, although the massive run looks bare with just two of them.
I don't know how old the birds were. I do know that Eloise was what was called a pullet I think - not laying when we had her.
My aunt had hundreds in three old barns and they used to be everywhere, in the cow sheds, drinking from the duck pond, on the road. I can't ever remember seeing a dead or sickly one.

Don't feel bad about it. Feeders do need to be taken in to prevent rats etc being attracted to them so you were sensible to do that. Wild birds are a different thing. They are everywhere, and for the most part, totally harmless. Free ranging chickens get constantly exposed to them and unless there is a major outbreak of avian flu you need not fear them.

Chickens brought up properly free ranging get gradual exposure from an early age to a lot of bugs and ultimately build up good immunity. This is why most farmyard chickens generally seem to stay healthy and last longer. An outbreak of myco can still knock them back though.

My fear is with the current trend for chicken keeping that the demand for chickens is huge and breeders are hatching inferior birds just to produce numbers to satisfy that demand. When someone wants a chicken, they generally want it NOW and are not prepared to wait. I have no youngsters left this year but several people have approached me in the last month wanting new stock and I have had to say sorry nothing till next summer.

Oh, BTW a pullet is a young hen in her first season.

[Scarlet]

Don't let it put you off! Wait for a while - just to check out your remainig two and then treat yourself to some more. If you're not bothered about the amount of eggs you have, look at some traditional hardy breeds. Take your time and find a good supplier - check out a few first.

[jimred]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your girl, i had been treating a girl for a few weeks but she died last week, it was a silkie the vet carried out a pm and found a tumour on her liver.
This may be something to do with merek but i don't know, it sometimes causes tumours so i have been told but the vet said it wasn't!

it always sad when you lose one, you can give them the best care possible but these things happen.

[VirginVegGrower]

Don't feel bad about it. Feeders do need to be taken in to prevent rats etc being attracted to them so you were sensible to do that. Wild birds are a different thing. They are everywhere, and for the most part, totally harmless. Free ranging chickens get constantly exposed to them and unless there is a major outbreak of avian flu you need not fear them.

Chickens brought up properly free ranging get gradual exposure from an early age to a lot of bugs and ultimately build up good immunity. This is why most farmyard chickens generally seem to stay healthy and last longer. An outbreak of myco can still knock them back though.

My fear is with the current trend for chicken keeping that the demand for chickens is huge and breeders are hatching inferior birds just to produce numbers to satisfy that demand. When someone wants a chicken, they generally want it NOW and are not prepared to wait. I have no youngsters left this year but several people have approached me in the last month wanting new stock and I have had to say sorry nothing till next summer.

Oh, BTW a pullet is a young hen in her first season.

Thanks RH - we did have to wait for our hens from the chap we bought from. Cheshire Poultry, Earl I think. He was very nice and knowledgeable. Took his time with us. I am out with the other two now - have brought them into the knot garden. They are very skitty/flighty. Am watching for any signs. They keep looking at their stalker most quizzically. They are looking for grubs. I do love the garden with hens. Seems so empty without all four but NO WAY am I contemplating anymore until a good six months or more are passed.
Sage is moulting - she doesn't seem to like porridge with poultry spice in. I read about tuna but that's meat. Would you recommend it or would something else be of benefit?
Sorry there are so many questions but I really need to keep her system built up.
In case I haven't said it - thank you so much
and to everyone else for help, advice and explanations.

[RichmondHens]

Sage is moulting - she doesn't seem to like porridge with poultry spice in. I read about tuna but that's meat. Would you recommend it or would something else be of benefit?

.

Others on here may suggest different things, but layers pellet should provide all the protein she needs to regrow feathers. TBH I rarely give anything extra and my chooks recover from the moult just on their regular diet. The main thing chooks require when regrowing feathers is protein, so I would go for a few soaked mealworms or chopped boiled egg if wishing to add extra protein.

A heavily moulting hen can look shocking - some of mine are like hedgehogs at the moment, poor little things - but it is surprising how quickly they bounce back.

[VirginVegGrower]

We went to get mealworms at your suggestion after taking Madds to the vets and never got there. I will get some tommorow - have tried egg and none of them want it. Thanks again. Sage is moulting and the two we lost were. Madeleine's had started to grow back quite quickly so we were doing something right with her before whatever it was took her down again in hours.

[VirginVegGrower]

OK just had a lengthy call to breeder Earl, who was lovely and assured us we had done nothing wrong. Suggested drilling extra ventilation holes in wooden house as he suspects Mycoplasma - said Tylan three days apart if caught early enough would have maybe worked on Madeline. So vet is getting a call tomorrow as I want to know if they keep it in. If not I need a vet in the Staffs/Derbyshire area please. We discussed Sage's moult and he confirmed layers pellets, stop the treats, mealworms good so thank you RH. He said if he could afford Eglu Cubes for his hens he would have them like a shot. I told him to find me another Madeline humanoid hen in 6-12 months, which is how long I reckon it will take me to stop crying and start eating again.
I just want to say a MASSIVE MASSIVE THANK YOU to everybody that has offered me help, guidance and learned wisdom AGAIN. You've all helped me on this and my other thread more than you will ever know.
We bury Madeline's ashes with Rosemary tomorrow. In their little dust ring that they made.
Rosemary was my weeder
Madeline my best gardening friend
You carved a hen shaped hole in my heart girls...love you xx