Possible diagnosis of sudden death in chooks

[VirginVegGrower]

Well this morning I had a suspect looking Sage. So I decided it was vet time again...I am laughing hysterically as I write this...hopefully when we are bankrupt we will at least have healthy hens. Anyway I checked overnight's poop and thought I could detect a faint tinge of pink in otherwise healthy looking poop. So with Sage withdrawing her neck towards body, inappetance, lethargy - it was time to try a different vet. We described the symptoms and he said coccidiosis or trimechanosis. So to cut a long story short we have worked from 10am until now moving the new Eglu, recleaned onto the grass up in the newly planted orchard area. All woodchips are gone. Girls are direct on grass and really perked up. They have both had Baytrox and Baytril. Two day course on the former, ten day on the latter. I am getting live probiotic yoghurt into them as well as giving their pellets. I am so BL@@DY determined I will beat this. I intend to keep moving their hut on wheels. I have raked all leaves off their new lawn, a Herculean effort in itself. Garden looking pristine. Old living area, raked, brushed, ***** Fluid cleansed and pressure washed off. I feel like Kim or Aggy.
Am now on Miss Z's wine again and chocolate plus hot bath. I hope normal life resumes soon.
Quick question - why if I bought supposedly vaccinated hens, have they got this? I am assuming breeder told porkies. Are young birds fed feed with a coccid in order to boost their own immunity in this country - been reading a US website? Can I get hens vaccinated myself against this and other diseases? Have seen where pure breeds are not usually vaccinated - are there any specific reasons why.
I am sorry ladies to keep lurching from one crisis to another but two dead birds is enough and I want to do everything I can to stop this.
I will be moving the girls' house to a new patch daily. Poo has gone for analysis.

[chris]

I think it was G4 that said her old man always used to say 'Dr Green' (grass) does wonders for chickens Sounds promising though!

[zazen999]

Bloomin heck - I thought it had been quiet on Twitter today. Another marathon effort from you and yours.

Lets hope you have it sussed or at least work this out finally!

[VirginVegGrower]

I damn well hope so Chris. Mr VVG and I dread getting up in the morning these days. Shame I didn't meet you last weekend. Shout next time you are up!
x VVG (hope wife and little one doing OK)

[its hilly]

As I understand it, here you can buy chick crumb with or without an anti-coccidiat in it. This will protect youngsters if you choose the one with.. Think it is the same with growers. After a certain age (around 14 wks but dont hold me to that) they begin to develop an immunity. Adult birds can carry cocci without being affected as they have built up their immunity.
I have only once had young birds develop cocci despite the stuff in food, and I treated them with coxoid (which is licensed for pigeons NOT chickens, but is nontheless a recommended treatment)
However I believe that most chickens carry cocci, they have just built up immunity, it is young birds that it kills.
Commercial birds are given a vaccine that covers several things. They are vaccinated at day old, and it is quite expensive. You can get your own birds vaccinated...but...the stuff comes in doses suitable for breeders of thousands of birds, so its not something the vet is going to order just in case someone might ask.
Before you keep moving coop I would ask vet exactly which disinfectants kill cocci, as I'm fairly sure that there are only a few, and can't remember if ***** does or not! You dont really want to infect your whole gounds with something if you can't get rid of it. And it will live in soil for a long time.

[VirginVegGrower]

They are well away from their orginal area now - well over fifty yards away, I am keeping them on the grass. Originally I wanted them by the house so that if the dogs barked it alerted me to Mr Foxy. Now I am thinking "S0d It" and the grass will keep them safer, disease wise. Foxey wise I take my chances, this new Eglu skirt is pegged down and hopefully it will earn it's keep. I foolishly thought their biggest threat was Reynard, however I am wiser now to disease being their biggest threat. Have spent all day next to them and I cannot bear to see two more losses. I have seen both lime and Stalosan documented as a ground sanitiser, but no way are they going back onto slabs and regularly changed chips.

[its hilly]

Hopefully you will get this nailed now VVG. Sounds like your new vet is determined to knock this on the head.
Lime is a good ground sanitiser and wont damage soil. But Coccidiosis is VERY difficult to kill off, can live for years in soil, and very few disinfectants/sanitisers work, so do check with your vet.
Mind you if it is then once your girls have recovered, they will be immune anyway, it would only be new youngsters that would be a problem.
Best of luck

[VirginVegGrower]

Bloomin heck - I thought it had been quiet on Twitter today. Another marathon effort from you and yours.

Lets hope you have it sussed or at least work this out finally!

A certain liquid refreshment is helping enormously. Come on over to the madhouse

[VirginVegGrower]

Hopefully you will get this nailed now VVG. Sounds like your new vet is determined to knock this on the head.
Lime is a good ground sanitiser and wont damage soil. But Coccidiosis is VERY difficult to kill off, can live for years in soil, and very few disinfectants/sanitisers work, so do check with your vet.
Mind you if it is then once your girls have recovered, they will be immune anyway, it would only be new youngsters that would be a problem.
Best of luck

Thanks itshilly - will the Stalosan kill it? Didn't know the little bu@@er lived on...?

[nellie-m]

Well this morning I had a suspect looking Sage

Oh no!

Sage withdrawing her neck towards body, inappetance, lethargy

Were your birds vaccinated against Newcastle disease? When did they get their last one - how long ago?

it was time to try a different vet. We described the symptoms and he said coccidiosis or trimechanosis.

What's trimechanosis? I never heard that term before.

Poo has gone for analysis.

Excellent. Symptoms of coccidiosis in an adult bird are unusual, as others have pointed out (and especially at this time of year, I might add).
Please forgive my forgetfulness, I'm sure you mentioned it earlier, but how old are your birds? And what breed or type?

[VirginVegGrower]

Three Marans of various shades and one Cream Legbar. Asked for POL but couldn't tell you age - shameful I know but have learnt so many things that I wouldn't do next time I purchase.
I was sold vaccinated birds, however...no vaccinations from moment of coming to us. Had I have known all of this I would have delved a little deeper. Benefit of hindsight hey?! Can't believe others practically neglect hens and yet they live for yonks. My long deceased aunt for one. My grandmother's neighbour's another.
Vet came up with the tri thingy wotsit. Hope all the drugs work! Thinking of getting some for myself...

[VirginVegGrower]

Think RH right on over sanitizing birds' environment and bought with no real knowledge of history. Never again!

[nellie-m]

Three Marans of various shades and one Cream Legbar.

Okay, so at least no battery hens bred for a short life of high egg production in a clean indoors environment.

I was sold vaccinated birds, however...no vaccinations from moment of coming to us.

Trouble is, if they were vaccinated against ND, and you didn't refresh it, they may not have full immunity anymore and in case of an infection show milder symptoms, i.e. the virus doesn't kill them as quickly as it would kill unvaccinated birds... Neurological symptoms can occur, like the craning of the neck.

Can't believe others practically neglect hens and yet they live for yonks.

Well I don't neglect mine, I don't think but I don't vaccinate and I don't try to disinfect the whole garden Mine roam the garden for several hours a day and who knows what they eat in all those corners and under the shrubs... My oldest hens hatched in 2000, they don't lay anymore but appear happy and healthy. Of course that doesn't mean all my hens get that old, they don't. But you see, if two of mine die during one year, that's not fifty percent of my birds! And the overall impression is still that of a healthy, happy flock.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Sage, and for you!

[Corris]

Fingers crossed.

I know very little being a hen keeper of only three weeks, but when phoning around and quizzing people selling hens (and being interviewed in return it felt) - I was asked what I was keeping them on and was strongly advised against woodchips or bark chippings. I can't stress how strongly really.

As I know someone who has done that and CANNOT shift redmite I'd already decided not to - and mine are in a pen with grass (what's left of it) and run the garden most of the day.

I have no idea if that didn't help your situation, but thought I'd mention that in this breeders opinion you would definitely have done the right thing taking them off woodchip.

[VirginVegGrower]

Okay, so at least no battery hens bred for a short life of high egg production in a clean indoors environment.



Trouble is, if they were vaccinated against ND, and you didn't refresh it, they may not have full immunity anymore and in case of an infection show milder symptoms, i.e. the virus doesn't kill them as quickly as it would kill unvaccinated birds... Neurological symptoms can occur, like the craning of the neck.



Well I don't neglect mine, I don't think but I don't vaccinate and I don't try to disinfect the whole garden Mine roam the garden for several hours a day and who knows what they eat in all those corners and under the shrubs... My oldest hens hatched in 2000, they don't lay anymore but appear happy and healthy. Of course that doesn't mean all my hens get that old, they don't. But you see, if two of mine die during one year, that's not fifty percent of my birds! And the overall impression is still that of a healthy, happy flock.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Sage, and for you!

I didn't mean neglect on here - no, am talking about years ago my aunty had lots and I never saw her do anything medicinal to her hens at all. There was a runaway hen that came to my mother's workplace year's ago and nobody did anything worming wise, well anything at all because they didn't know they had to. She lived for years.
The two have had their Baycox (sorry, not Baytrix) and Baytril and are now having a peck at fresh grass again.