Lice

[kathyd]

Hi

I suspect we may have lice. Well, not me personally (I hope! Had enough of that when the kids were at school...), but my chickens. I assume that if one has them, they'll all have them? It's one of the few things they seem to want to share with each other...

I saw a yellowy 'thing' run across Dotty's botty yesterday - she still has a bald section under her tail where her friend was helping her peck out feathers during her moult, so it was easy to see. I don't 'think' it's mites, but obviously could be wrong.

Now, I've read my Haynes Chicken Manual, and it says to take the chicken, lay it on its back and rifle through its feathers before dusting liberally with louse powder. Oh, and if you can't remove the eggs from the base of the feather, to pull the feather out and burn it.... OK - there is no way on this planet I'm going to persuade any of them to take this lying down, so to speak... Whilst they'll all eat from my hand, and I can stroke some of them if I catch them in an unsuspecting moment, the chances of picking them up, let alone getting them to obligingly roll over and stay there quietly while I remove parts of their clothing, just ain't going to happen.

I've studied the coop before, and given its appalling design (described at length in another thread), I don't think there's much chance of getting them out at night to do the dastardly deed on them then either.

I have some Barrier Red Mite powder but no 'louse powder', and some 'Total Mite Kill' or something equally scary sounding, which I'd planned on using on the coop when the weather's a bit milder, maybe next week if I'm lucky. I usually sprinkle the powder in the coop where they nest and sleep, and sometimes in their dust baths in the garden if it's dry. I also have some vaseline, and some apple cider vinegar - I use the vinegar mixed with some eco friendly cleaning stuff and water to get in the cracks in the coop with a toothbrush periodically. Beyond that I'm a bit stuck for ideas really... Can anyone help please, given the constraints mentioned?

Thanks

[Suechooks]

You need louse powder really although if your mite powder is Diatomaceous earth it should do the job. I sometimes use Frontline Spray on my birds as it covers all parasites. Its not licensed for poultry but my vet recommends it.
The bottom () line is that you really need to handle the birds to treat them! Sorry. If you try approaching them from the front and pick them up from the front with your hand under breastbone and legs between your fingers (Richmond described holding them in another thead) it seems much easier than trying to grab from above which spooks them. Use your other hand to "drive" them towards the hand you want to pick them up with. If you hold them like that they are normally very compliant and calm. I've done a couple of ex-batt rescues and this way of catching them is much better than trying to chase them all over the barn when they've just experienced their first taste of freedom!!! If you get all your stuff ready to hand you can then powder them quite easily. It takes a bit of practice but worth the trouble - I do 35 birds on my own so I know it can work! If you can get someone else to powder them while you hold then it might give you more confidence. Try and confine them in a small area to catch them and make your movements slow and deliberate. Good luck!

[RichmondHens]

As Sue says you really do need to handle them to treat them, and yes you will need to treat them all even if only one has lice. De lousing (and checking) is another regular job to do. Handling birds regularly also gives you the opportunity to spot other problems, weight loss for example. I do mine every 3 - 4 weeks regardless of lice presence or not. Some chickens will always have a few lice, they seem magnets for them, others will never ever have them. I have one particular bantam hen who has always struggled with lice, she seems well in every other respect so I let her go on as normal, but she needs dusting every two weeks to keep her clear - if I let it slide they are back - and yet I have other birds who I have never found a single louse on.

If you cannot get louse powder in France,( although I'm sure you must be able to somewhere, if it has a chemical component then take note of any egg withdrawal instruction) then diatomaceous earth will be fine, just be sure to use it liberally and rub well into skin particularly round the vent, between the legs, up underneath the collar and into the head feathers. And repeat after 4 -5 days. Any nitty feathers just pluck out. Again, as Sue says it is much easier at night but if your coop is inaccessible then it will have to be a day job, the later in the day the better so they have less chance of going straight off and dusting out the powder in their regular bath. I have a landing net (like fishermen have) to catch up birds if I need to during the day (very useful for escapees).

[kathyd]

Oh dear, I had a horrible feeling you'd be telling me to pick them up! Lol . It's not that I don't want to - I love giving them a cuddle - they just object so I don't often do it.

Realistically I know I can get two of the younger ones, and probably the other 2 as well if I get them cornered - but these 2 are maran crosses and one in particular has got quite big now and struggles - and she's strong! Once she gets her wings free I've had it. My Dotty maran would love to be picked up, but she's big and heavy and I've struggled to manage in the past, much to her dismay. But when you start to fumble it, it puts them off in future doesn't it? I'm not sure how to pick up a big heavy bird without hurting her? She's squatting readily at the moment, so in principle I should be able to get her quite easily if she was a bit smaller!

The final 2 are hybrids, and although quite friendly they don't like being touched or messed with. If they spot your hand moving towards them from any angle, they jump sideways to avoid you. I'll have to try the cornering and grabbing strategy and see how it goes - at least they're a normal size!

I'll have a look for louse powder, you're right, there must be something here. Failing that I'll go for Frontline spray - which is probably easier to apply anyway! I don't suppose I could just sneak up on them and squirt them up the bum while they're not looking could I .... It's probably easier to find louse powder than diatomaceous earth, which I've not seen anywhere. I'll see if I can get it delivered from the UK without breaking the bank if necessary, otherwise it'll be around easter when I next go back and could pick some up. RH - from what you describe, I don't need to do under the wings then?

[RichmondHens]

Unless you have joint/wrist problems you should be able to hold even a heavy bird by its legs with one hand - my 10 yo daughter can do it - just be firm and don't be put off by any flapping, they do stop when they realise they can't get away. This allows you to inspect and dust with the other. If they are particularly wriggly stuff them under your arm still holding the legs with the bum sticking upwards, then the wings are pinned to their sides between your side and the arm you are holding them with - does that make sense?

I've never seen lice under wings, except with a very sick bird. They lay their eggs in the area between the vent and back legs and this is where you will find the majority of the lice but it is important to dust the whole body and head anyway.

An alternative to Frontline, which as Sue says is not licensed for chickens and there are mixed views in the poultry world generally about its use, is Johnsons Anti Mite (Pyrethrum or Permethrin) Spray, which I use occasionally, which is actually a pigeon product but can be used on poultry. It has a two day egg withdrawal time. Another product is Harkamectin, again for use on pigeons, but I do know of poultry breeders who use it. I've not tried it as there is too long an egg withdrawal time for my liking (two weeks).

Good luck!

[Suechooks]

I've got 4 Marans which are pretty hefty and 2 LF Orpingtons. I struggle to do various jobs because of my wrists/shoulders which are now suffering from years of working in the health care profession! However using the method of holding them described I have no problem. Also you'll find if you hold them confidently and let the breastbone rest on your forearm they won't/can't flap their wings. To flap properly they need to push up on their feet/legs and you're restricting that movement as well as making them feel secure.
Practice on the easy ones for a couple of days while you're waiting to get whatever louse deterrent you decide on.
Diatomaceous earth is also sold under trade names - Diatom and Organic Smite being examples. You may find one of the mite powders are actually DE!

[kathyd]

Ah! That's the secret then! I've never actually tried holding their legs... I've usually just scooped them up with my hands pinning their wings to their sides, and then stuck them under my arm where the wings stay pinned (in theory), and the legs dangle while I support them sort of underneath. If that makes sense.. But I've never tried picking them up from the front and hanging onto their legs... And that's why I've had problems with the bigger birds of course, because even my big shovel like hands aren't big enough to grip a big bird properly at the sides.. Hmmm... this needs practice... I can see my smaller birds are going to have a very trying time over the next few days!

[Suechooks]

If you've got the time, just sit in their run with them (don't freeze to death!) till they're ignoring you and just approach slowly and quietly. I have 2 youngsters who are quite difficult to catch but if I can get them in a corner I get my right hand palm upwards ready to get hold of legs and use the left hand behind them to sort of drive them to the other hand.
Holding them by wings/body makes it difficult for them to breathe so they struggle to get away for that reason.

[tlck9]

What is it with Lice!!!! I am really good at checking and noted a few stragglers, so I dusted them on there backs and near their necks which is where I can only find the lice.....THEN!

I decided to check my girlie scrappy, her feathers were growing lovely since her ex batt moult and she's had a dirty bum about 10 days ago (sadly from a prolapsed egg some time ago) anyway bag to the story...Her bum was covered and not just in the little blighters I usually see humungous awful things

I felt awful how could I not know....I took rapid action. Although they seem to be okay with Diatomaceous earth based product its just not killing them

My little one who for what ever reason cannot rid of them had groups of eggs - How the you know what they got there when I check my birds every day.

Any suggestions, I;ve posted as Henna my old girl has scaly legs and I can't get shot of that either

[Suechooks]

Tick9 Have you tried my favourite Frontline or Richmond Hens favourite Johnsons Anti Mite spray? Another forum I visit all the members seem to use Harkemectin but as RH has said there's a 2 week egg withdrawal for that.

[RichmondHens]

Lice can take hold very quickly, they are often worse in the winter than in the warmer months as hens have less inclination, and fewer drier days, to do their dustbathing. Lice breed faster in warmer weather but birds dust then more too.

Bums are usually the first place to find lice as it's the part the hen cannot reach as easily, they tend to be able to preen most other parts. As the infestation grows you will start to see them on other parts of the body. So when checking, always check the bottom area first.

Don;t worry about big nit clusters (it sounds like this is what your hens have tlck) just pull them off, feather and all. You will end up with a bald bummed chicken but she will be much more comfortable.

[frias]

My vet told me to use Frontline for both lice and scaley leg mite. Vaseline is also good for scaley leg mite.

[kathyd]

Hi Suechooks / RH - I've just had my first go at picking up properly - quite unplanned as it happens, one of my maran cross youngsters flew onto the coop at bedtime and I needed to lift her down.. We got in a right tangle for a minute, and then everything sort of - sorted itself out... I have no idea how, but it worked really well! You're right, she did settle down and was quite happy to be carried back and placed on the ramp, where she dutifully went inside to begin the nightly squabble for the best place to sleep. Maybe next time we'll get straight to the good bit and avoid all the flapping and grumbles! Thanks, it should make things a lot easier from now on

[RichmondHens]

Glad to hear it. With a bit of practice you'll be a dab hand!

[chris]

I read somewhere that turning the bird on it's side for a couple of seconds will calm them down. It works for my lot, I was most surprised.

So you could give that a go, side, then when calm - onto their backs... might help? My wife is the similar, any flapping of the wings and she's gone. Literally, out of the garden! Haven't tried turning her on her side yet, but next argument I'll give it a shot!