More advice please

[kathyd]

Sorry to resurrect this, but having finally got the hang of picking up my chickens and giving them an initial basic dusting of louse powder, I then decided to progress on to trying to turn them onto their backs so I could actually see what I was doing - I know I've not done a very thorough job up to now due to a lack of confidence etc. I managed the 3 easy ones yesterday and was amazed at how relatively stress-free it all was. Fab. BUT I found that one of them, my poor little damaged hen, is absolutely totally and disgustingly infested with the things, including vast numbers of eggs all over her feathers.

I powdered her again, and loads appeared on her back later presumably trying to escape, and I followed advice and pulled a few feathers out (I felt very brave) and burned them. However, I didn't take all the feathers because I think we'd both had enough at that stage, soI've just tipped her up again to have another go. If I pull every nitty feather out, she'll be bald underneath and it'll take ages to do, there are dozens affected. I suspect it'll be quite traumatising (for me at least!). So... is there an easier / gentler approach to this please? Could I, for example, dust her every few days as the eggs hatch? Or pull just a few feathers out each day and dust once a week? Or SOMETHING so that it's not such a big job all at once??

I've not yet tried to roll my maran over - I have no idea how a 10 year old manages to pick them up, let alone manipulate them! I have big hands, but can barely get her legs between my fingers! I'm enlisting help with her later this afternoon . Anyway, from the way she feels underneath I suspect she could be in the same boat and have lots of eggs on her - will all the eggs be on the fluffly little feathers, as with the smaller bird? I do hope they don't lay on the big outer feathers...

Also, will the plucked feathers grow again over the summer?

Several of the birds have had slightly mucky bottoms - white stuff - and there have been signs of diarrohea recently - could this be related to the lice, or is it likely to be something different? I've started dosing them with Flubenvet to be on the safe side...

Honestly, if it's not one thing it's another... *scratches head* (yes, probably lice )

Thanks in anticipation.

[stella]

Sorry can't offer any advice I am new to all of this but can I ask you where did you get your lice powder and what is it called

[kathyd]

Hi Stella

I'm not going to be much help I'm afraid, because I live in Brittany now and the product was purchased over here from my local vet. It's pyrethrum based is all I can tell you... However, there are others on this forum with way more experience than I have who can probably recommend a product which is licenced for use in the UK. Alternatively you could contact your vet for advice .

[stella]

Will do many thanks

[RichmondHens]

It rather sounds like the heavily infested chicken is more poorly than you think. Ill hens often get infested with lice because they lack energy to preen and clean themselves. If plucking the feathers is too stressful (and yes they will grow back) then dust every few days to kill the emerging baby lice. Keep an eye on her as an infestation of this size is in my experience a sign of underlying problems.

For really big heavy hens an alternative to tipping them on their backs is to tip them head downwards so their bum is in the air, pour a good amount of powder onto the bum area and work in and down the belly. Then turn the chicken up the right way and tip powder all over back and neck and rub in that way. I've adopted a method to dust my indian game cock who is hugest thing I've ever had - I tip a handful of powder into one hand and just stick my hand underneath him as he roosts and rub the powder in that way, then tip more over the top of him afterwards. IGs are very wide between the legs so it's easy to do him this way, less so with other breeds though.

And yes the eggs will be on the fluffy feathers, they need body warmth to survive so only lay close to the skin surface.

And don't worry, they won't live on you, even if you do find some on you later. They will come off in the shower or just drop off and die.

[kathyd]

Hi RH, thanks for the advice. I'm sure you're right about the heavily infested bird, I'm actually surprised she's lasted this long to be honest. However, she still seems happy enough most of the time, and if I can clear the lice she'll be a lot more comfortable.

What I'm more concerned about after your comment is my maran though - when we got her on her side (couldn't tip her over completely) and I moved her feathers, she's absolutely crawling with them, and there are nasty yellowy crusty looking lumps in some places at the base of the feathers too. Now Dotty (maran) has never given the impression of being ill or weak, apart from when she went through that awful moult that had me in a panic. She preens herself all the time, and never stops talking. However, she did spend an awful lot of time with the infested one (Downy) in the porch during her moult, and Downy's always been one to snuggle up with the others for a cuddle if they'll let her, so maybe Dotty could have picked up the lice then? Anyway, I'll keep an eye on them both, pull out some feathers gradually, and dust them both every few days.

Is it possible to over-dust and make them ill?

I did start by rubbing powder between Dotty's legs as you describe in fact - I thought it was just me being hopeless, but even my OH couldn't get her legs between his fingers today. She was as good as gold and stood on my legs while I did it, and it worked fine, except of course you can't really see what's going on. Maybe we'll have a go at the head down thing next - can't really visualise how we get her in that position, but maybe it'll all become clear when we try!

Thanks again.

[RichmondHens]

Clumps at base of feathers are nits so remove as many as she will let you. Sounds like you need several goes at her, like the other hen. Yes I think she has been infected by the other hen. No you can't really over-dust. Do you know what the active ingredient is?

Re the position, think of a rugby ball with the pointy ends representing head and tail, ends facing ground and sky. Grasp the legs as you would normally and just tip the bird tail up to the sky and pressing her against your side to contain the wings and make her feel secure. She will right her head automatically so don't be alarmed if she looks as if her neck is twisted at a strange angle.

Another thing you can try as a lice repellent (but it won't kill them) is tea tree oil. Stroke a little through the feathers all over the hen, but don't overdo it and avoid the face although a tiny amount on the back of the head is ok.

[petal]

also add garlic to their food or water- its another repellant- and I bet there is no shortage of it where you are living!!

[kathyd]

Hi RH - the active ingredient is pyrethrum. It claims there's no egg withdrawal, which is good news . Didn't know about tea tree oil, thanks. Plan to dust and possibly pull a few feathers every 2 or 3 days for a while on the badly infested ones, and possibly a light dusting every week or so on the others for now? How often should I empty and refill the coop during this process - are they carried in the litter? Normally I clean out the bulk of the droppings and top up with fresh wood shavings every day, but there are always some little dry bits of poo left which escape - is this going to be a problem?

Hi Petal - true, there's loads around! Lol . I'm growing it too, so hopefully we'll be well stocked soon! I've actually been putting it into their lunchtime 'snack' quite a lot (mainly pellets with the treat mixed in, as per advice on here), and also using unpasteurised apple cider vinegar in their water sometimes, so all's good on that front. Just need to get rid of the infestation and hopefully things will glide along a bit more smoothly over the summer...

[RichmondHens]

Lice don't live off the bird so no need to change your regular mucking out program.

Pyrethrum is good, derived from chrysanthemums and naturally broken down so you can use freely. We seem to be seeing it less and less over here, manufacturers are switching to permethrin which is the synthetic alternative but I would always opt for the real mcCoy if I could get it.

Yes keep up the dusting of all birds, even ones that are unaffected, as a preventative. Once all are clear then you can go back to routine prevention dusting once every 3 - 4 weeks.

[kathyd]

Thanks RH, that's good news anyway! I'm going to buy another pack of the powder next week to make sure I don't run out!

[Nicos]

Guess what???

Yup- we have a gal with lice. First one ever!

Darn...oh well- got to deal with it as best as poss.

Went to my vet today- and she gave me Rhodeo by green vet.
Is this what you've been using kathy?
It appears to have geraniol and pyrethrum in it.

I'm more than happy to use it freely now I've read your post RH- thanks for that.

Flipping expensive though!!!! ( 11.57E for 125g )
How long is yours lasting kathy? ( I have 18 chooks)

[RichmondHens]

Just check if there is any egg withdrawal though. It won't be long, usually a couple of days.

[kathyd]

Oh no! Mine must have decided to come for a visit .

I've got the same stuff yes, but mine is 250g for just over 17 euros - you may want to try other vets to see if their price is lower? There's no withdrawal period RH.

I don't know how long it's lasting to be honest! First couple of times I used it, I got more on me than on the hens.. lol . I started off tipping some in a dish and using my fingers to rub underneath, and that was relatively efficient, BUT when I found how badly 2 of them are infested I started just tipping randomly and over-enthusiastically straight from the tub on their 'dosing days', which is using it up much faster! Then trying to do just heads and necks on all of them the other day was a joke, and quite a lot ended up on the floor... I think I need more practice (or a week in rehab..). So I'm probably not the best example really! However, even with just 7 hens my tub is feeling quite light already, and I'm going to buy another one next time we go to town. So with 18 chooks and only half the quantity, I think I'd be comparing prices as soon as poss if I were you .

[chris]

So are lice a common problem? Where do they come from - other infected birds, or wild birds?